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First the Internet, Now the Grassroots, Ron Paul wins 20
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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 Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Ron Paul opposed government spending on alternative energy .
Is that good for Al Qaeda or bad for Al Qaeda? |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:02 am Post subject: |
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Yata,
Historically, the Republican Party is the party of non-interventionism and free trade. The Democrats have been the party of socialists, racists, interventionists, and war - that is a really big tent, but somehow they logrolled their special interests into the D Party.
True, in the current, 21st manifestation of the R Party, Ron Paul doesn't seem to belong, but the neocons have failed, their ideas are bankrupt and discredited, and the electoral tremor they faced in 2006 is nothing to the tsunami looming ahead. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:51 am Post subject: |
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For Joo,
Although you are apparently incapable of fathoming the basic tenets of current economic science, I will reiterate my previous elementary explanations for you, and others who might look for replies to your nonsense:
1) The US government is bankrupt. It has been for over 50 years. The total national debt as measured by standard accounting practice exceeds $60 trillion dollars. Most of this constitutes the actuarially determined net present value of future obligations under government insurance and retirement welfare programs. Who says so, the chief US government accountant, among others. I posted that link before. NO ONE disputes his facts.
2) The US dollar is a fiat currency without any backing having an intrinsic value of zero. The current and recent "bubbles" in housing and the stockmarket are merely ripples drifting over from the looming currency meltdown.
The history of this is long and would take volumes. Simply, at the time of the small recession the government started in the 30s as a result of restrictive tariff policy (the Smoot-Hawley tariff which caused the famous stock market crash) and the inflationary monetary expansion followed by a sudden contraction also at the hands of the government, FDR began the foolish policy of tinkering with the gold backing of the dollar. He arbitrarily devalued the dollar and raised the linkage from $20 per ounce to $32 dollars per ounce. He turned a little recession into the Great Depression.
Government actions deepend and lengthened the depression. When the government got busy with WWII, trade opened up again with the Allies and despite rationing, the government interference in the economy acutally declined. This allowed the US and world economies to begin to grow. (The Keynesian explaination is no longer accepted by up to date economists, although historians are often a generation behind.)
Then came a new massive inflationary tide under Johnson as the undeclared, illegal, interventionist Vietnam war threatened to swamp and destroy the US economy. Nixon inherited the problem and created the nightmare scenario in which we find ourselves today. He instituted wage and price controls, which were partially lifted except in the energy area. These controls encouraged overconsumption, long-term mal investment, the empowerment of OPEC and resulted in the two famous "oil crises." This was in part a twisted plan to reduce the US producer price and restrict production and simultaneously raise the world price allowing US proxy state dictators in the Mid East (the Shaw and the Saudis) to increase their revenues and expand their militaries.
This has led to a "double blowback" by creating massive armies of citizen enemies abroad and an energy market that encouraged overconsumption, including long-term misallocations and dislocations and the spector of today's energy dependence.
Nixon's second arrogant and evil response to the small difficulties at the time was to "float" the dollar. He actually ended its gold backing, thereby rendering it worthless.
Of course, economics concerns some things that unfold over generations. The dollar was a world reserve currency, and so, even without gold backing it has seemed to operate as if it was backed by gold. Other currencies continued to back their currencies with the dollar (acceptable if the dollar is a gold based unit of account) and investors continued to rely on dollar demoninated assets. As the fall of the dollar from $32 per ounce in the pre-Nixonian era, until today has been gradual, few people have realised that the dollar is actually in an inevitable decline to zero. Without backing, that is the true value of any currency. Of course, the lack of any alternative backed currency in the world market has obfuscated the true nature of the economic realities currently (over the last 4 decades) revealing themselves.
Then came the foolish Iraq war, the ultimate interventionist disaster. OBL's greatest success will not be the well designed attack that he, as a trained engineer, predicted would bring down to two great symbols of New York. Rather, it is that the neo-stupids took his bait, started a no-win war where none was justified or needed and thereby expanded the future enemy base of the terrorists and accelerated the already critical dollar meltdown. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:11 am Post subject: |
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continued:
Nixon's disasterous price controls on energy were finally lifted under Reagan. Unfortunately, the deleterious, fascist-socialist policies begun under FDR continued, expanded under succeeding Presidents. As I have illucidated before, free highways and roads, rural electrification, RFD mail, property taxes, the destruction of cities as desireable housing locations by socialistic regulation and even government schools have caused a massive malinvestment of TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS in wasteful, long-distance commuting, polluting, automobile based urban development while simultaneously encouraging pollution, destroying the environment and DESTROYING the alternative energy industry you simplistically shill for.
To save the USA, to save the real America of liberty, prosperity and peace, we have to undo all the evil of the past, actually going back to 1914 and the repeal of the income tax.
The US debt is actually beyond paying, and the dollar is beyond saving. We will, however, need to institute a new gold backed currency, a debt free constitutionally based government, with no taxes on income and no taxes on property, and a sane, non-interventionist foreign policy.
I know that all of this is beyond your ken, Joo, but the inevitable events are unfolding, the nonsense of the policies you unwittingly endorse is reverberating back in a financial tsunami that could dwarf the Great Depression, and only the policies of Ron Paul and his supporters (which I am only briefly able to explain to you in the limited time I can waste on Dave's), only Ron Paul and the economists and political scientists he represents can hope to save America. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="ontheway"]For Joo,
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Although you are apparently incapable of fathoming the basic tenets of current economic science, I will reiterate my previous elementary explanations for you, and others who might look for replies to your nonsense: |
Y[quote]
1) The US government is bankrupt. It has been for over 50 years. The total national debt as measured by standard accounting practice exceeds $60 trillion dollars. Most of this constitutes the actuarially determined net present value of future obligations under government insurance and retirement welfare programs. Who says so, the chief US government accountant, among others. I posted that link before. NO ONE disputes his facts.[/quo
You are talking about social security/Medicare obligations. They some adjustment in benefits is needed. The number isn't as bad if US growth rates are higher.
fyi
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* The economy (gross domestic product) grew 70 percent from 1987 through 2005.
* The number of nonfarm jobs increased 31.4 million, or 31 percent, with average unemployment of 5.6 percent.
* Annual inflation as measured by the consumer price index averaged 3.1 percent.
* Pretax corporate profits jumped from $369 billion to $1.33 trillion.
* The stock market quadrupled, with the Standard & Poor's 500-stock index rising from 287 (the 1987 average) to 1,207 (the 2005 average). |
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20870136/site/newsweek/
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2) The US dollar is a fiat currency without any backing having an intrinsic value of zero. The current and recent "bubbles" in housing and the stockmarket are merely ripples drifting over from the looming currency meltdown. |
IF you are so smart then why aren't you making money off this by short selling the US dollar[quote]
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Then came a new massive inflationary tide under Johnson as the undeclared, illegal, interventionist Vietnam war threatened to swamp and destroy the US economy. Nixon inherited the problem and created the nightmare scenario in which we find ourselves today. He instituted wage and price controls, which were partially lifted except in the energy area. These controls encouraged overconsumption, long-term mal investment, the empowerment of OPEC and resulted in the two famous "oil crises." This was in part a twisted plan to reduce the US producer price and restrict production and simultaneously raise the world price allowing US proxy state dictators in the Mid East (the Shaw and the Saudis) to increase their revenues and expand their militaries. |
How about the Korean war. Gee you have a job cause of it. The Vietnam war didn't turn out so well . Well you can't pice and choose the cold war.
North Vietnams invasion of the South was illegal. And this is not a reason for the US govt not to invest in alternative energy or raise gas taxes.
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This has led to a "double blowback" by creating massive armies of citizen enemies abroad and an energy market that encouraged overconsumption, including long-term misallocations and dislocations and the spector of today's energy dependence. |
This is not a good reason for the govt not to invest in alternative energy or increase gas taxes.
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Nixon's second arrogant and evil response to the small difficulties at the time was to "float" the dollar. He actually ended its gold backing, thereby rendering it worthless. |
This is not a good reason for the govt not to invest in alternative energy or increase gas taxes.
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Of course, economics concerns some things that unfold over generations. The dollar was a world reserve currency, and so, even without gold backing it has seemed to operate as if it was backed by gold. Other currencies continued to back their currencies with the dollar (acceptable if the dollar is a gold based unit of account) and investors continued to rely on dollar demoninated assets. As the fall of the dollar from $32 per ounce in the pre-Nixonian era, until today has been gradual, few people have realised that the dollar is actually in an inevitable decline to zero. Without backing, that is the true value of any currency. Of course, the lack of any alternative backed currency in the world market has obfuscated the true nature of the economic realities currently (over the last 4 decades) revealing themselves. |
Not an argument against alternative energy.
Shame on Ron Paul.
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Then came the foolish Iraq war, the ultimate interventionist disaster. OBL's greatest success will not be the well designed attack that he, as a trained engineer, predicted would bring down to two great symbols of New York. Rather, it is that the neo-stupids took his bait, started a no-win war where none was justified or needed and thereby expanded the future enemy base of the terrorists and accelerated the already critical dollar meltdown. |
The mideast was a threat to the US . 9-11 showed that.
It was justified cause Saddam never gave up his war.
Al Qaeda/Jihand international will attack the US if the US trades or has diplomatic relations with nations they don't like or votes at the UN the way they don't like. and they will blame
And none of what you say is an excuse why the US govt ought not to invest in alternative energy / tax imported oil / raise the gas tax.
Shame on Ron Paul.
continued:
Nixon's disasterous price controls on energy were finally lifted under Reagan. Unfortunately, the deleterious, fascist-socialist policies begun
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| under FDR continued, expanded under succeeding Presidents. As I have illucidated before, free highways and roads, rural electrification, RFD mail, property taxes, the destruction of cities as desireable housing locations by socialistic regulation and even government schools have caused a massive malinvestment of TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS in wasteful, long-distance commuting, polluting, automobile based urban development while simultaneously encouraging pollution, destroying the environment and DESTROYING the alternative energy industry you simplistically shill for. |
No proof.
And that is not an argument why the US ought not invest in alternative energy.
And of course govt intervention is often very useful - no govt intervention no GPS today.
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To save the USA, to save the real America of liberty, prosperity and peace, we have to undo all the evil of the past, actually going back to 1914 and the repeal of the income tax. |
and bankrupt the US govt. That sounds tood
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The US debt is actually beyond paying, and the dollar is beyond saving. We will, however, need to institute a new gold backed currency, a debt free constitutionally based government, with no taxes on income and no taxes on property, and a sane, non-interventionist foreign policy.
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Define non interventionist.
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I know that all of this is beyond your ken, Joo, but the inevitable events are unfolding, the nonsense of the policies you unwittingly endorse is reverberating back in a financial tsunami that could dwarf the Great Depression, and only the policies of Ron Paul and his supporters (which I am only briefly able to explain to you in the limited time I can waste on Dave's), only Ron Paul and the economists and political scientists he represents can hope to save America |
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Why does this make it a good idea not to invest in alternative energy / raise the gas tax and tax foreign oil. Why is this not a good idea to force people to cut down on their consumption of oil today.
I once got a flyer with your message on the subway.
You ought to join a militia in the US.
You are yourself are an advertisement why non one ought to vote for Ron Paul.
Shame on Ron Paul for not supporting alternative energy research by the US govt.
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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seoulshock
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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yesterday i shorted the US dollar to the swiss franc.
earlier today i shorted the US dollar to the aus $.
so far i'm up 16% in the francs, 12% in aus $.
my yen are also doing fine. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:30 am Post subject: |
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Recent results on from the top:
Ron Paul's Straw Poll Results
Updated on October 8, 2007
Straw Poll Date Rank Votes
Oregon Straw Poll- Portland, Oregon 10/06/2007 1 67.0%
Gwinnett County GOP, Atlanta, Georgia 9/30/2007 1 36.2%
CWA New Jersey GOP Straw Poll 9/29/2007 1 77.0%
South Sound Reagan Republican Club 9/26/2007 1 35.0%
Mackinac Isl - MI Rep Leadership Conf 9/23/2007 3 10.8%
Palmetto Family Council Straw Poll 9/20/2007 2 33.0%
Values Voters Presidential Debate Poll 9/17/2007 2 13.0%
Manchester, NH Straw Poll 9/16/2007 1 65.0%
South Dakota Straw Poll 9/03/2007 6 8.0%
Maryland Straw Poll 9/03/2007 1 27.3%
Texas Straw Poll 9/01/2007 3 16.7%
Allegheny County, Pennsylvania 8/26/2007 1 45.2%
DeKalb County, Georgia Straw Poll 8/25/2007 1 24.0%
HRCC (Minnesota) 8/22/2007 3 16.0%
Ronald Reagan Club (Washington) 8/21/2007 1 28.0%
West Alabama 8/18/2007 1 81.2%
Strafford County, NH 8/18/2007 1 72.2%
West Lafayette, Indiana 8/18/2007 4 11.7%
Illinois State Fair 8/17/2007 3 18.9%
Students for Life of America 8/16/2007 4 9.0%
Western Montana Fair 8/15/2007 6 4.0%
Gaston County, NC 8/14/2007 1 36.6%
Ames, Iowa 8/11/2007 5 9.1%
Nat Fed of Rep Assemblies St Louis 8/06/2007 3 14.0%
FreedomWorks Straw Poll 8/03/2007 1 56.0%
Georgetown County, SC 7/28/2007 2 17.9%
New Hampshire Taxpayers 7/07/2007 1 65.3%
Cobb County, GA 7/04/2007 2 17.0%
California Republican Assembly 7/01/2007 4 12.0%
National Taxpayers Union 6/16/2007 2 16.7%
Utah GOP convention 6/08/2007 2 5.4%
Coming soon... Washington State GOP, Oklahoma State GOP, Ohio State GOP |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Ron Paul still at 3% max
but this is silly to argue.
I got a deal for you if Ron Paul wins the Republican primary I will post an apology to you saying that I was wrong about my prediction.
If he wins the national election I will do it once again.
Will you agree to to do the same if he doesn't?
What do you say? |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Another win:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jyAtLViiiA
recent results:
Ron Paul's Straw Poll Results
Updated on October 13, 2007
Straw Poll Date Rank Votes
Conservative Leadership Conference, Reno, Nevada 10/13/2007 1 33.0%
Jefferson County, Alabama Straw Poll 10/13/2007 1 57.8%
Washington State Republican Party Fall Dinner Straw Poll 10/11/2007 4 12.2%
Tulsa State Fair, Oklahoma 10/07/2007 1 41.5%
Ron Paul has now won 17 of these straw polls around the country. His fundraising continues to grow. Over $5 million in the 3rd quarter. 4th quarter is already running at a pace ahead of the 3rd quarter. Media coverage is finally starting.
Since Ron Paul had no media coverage up until now, and no advertising in Iowa or New Hampshire up until now, his poll numbers have been low and growing slowly. However, now is the time. His long shot odds are improving. If he doubles his fundraising again in the 4th quarter and after he begins advertising in the early primary states, we will finally get to see his real chances.
Ron Paul has two shots at the White House. One is to win the R nomination: still about 8% odds, up from almost 0% a few months ago, with Giuliani leading with the odds makers at 41% odds, McCain is at 6%, down from over 50% a few months ago. The second chance is for Ron Paul to do what Joo hopes for, and run 3rd Party/Independent. Given his growth rate in Fundraising, he could raise over $100 million by election day for such a campaign. It would be bigger than Ross Perot's effort, and might be the best way for him to become President, beholding to none of the D's and R's who created our problems anyway. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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It would be bigger than Ross Perot's effort, and might be the best way for him to become President, beholding to none of the D's and R's who created our problems anyway.
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That would be a terrific outcome.  Imagine a president with no support from either party in Congress. Talk about a eunuch. Either party would force him to sell his soul just to appoint a dog catcher in Podunk, not to mention the deals he'd have to make to appoint his cabinet.
I thought it was amusing above when you mentioned the Democrats were the party of racists. That was true before 1968. Then they left the Party. Where did they go? Hmmm? (You conveniently skipped over the most important political event of the last half of the century--the Nixon legacy.) |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:07 am Post subject: |
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Yata, you really know nothing about politics or history, in addition your zero in economics.
Check out Independent governors William Longley and Angus King of Maine, or the sweeping changes brought by Robert LaFollette to Wisconsin, among others.
Ron Paul would have the support of the people, veto power and the ability to carve new coalitions based on issues rather than party. The legislators would be afraid to oppose him because the revolution could sweep them out in the coming years. Many would not only go along, but join him in advancing the cause of change and reform and the restoration of liberty and honesty in government, as the benefits and desires of the voters become clear. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Ron Paul has now won 20 out of 40 Republican Party straw polls:
Ron Paul's Straw Poll Results
Updated on November 2, 2007
Straw Poll Date Rank Votes
South Sound Ronald Reagan Republican Club, Tacoma, WA 11/01/2007 1 37.7%
Springfield Metropolitan Republican Club, Springfield, MO 11/01/2007 1 77.3%
Laramie County GOP Straw Poll, Cheyenne, WY 10/28/2007 1 TBD
Values Voter Straw Poll, Washington, DC 10/20/2007 3 15.0%
Conservative Leadership Conference, Reno, Nevada 10/13/2007 1 33.0%
Jefferson County, Alabama Straw Poll 10/13/2007 1 57.8%
Washington State Republican Party Fall Dinner Straw Poll 10/11/2007 4 12.2%
Tulsa State Fair, Oklahoma 10/07/2007 1 41.5%
Oregon Straw Poll- Portland, Oregon 10/06/2007 1 67.0%
Gwinnett County GOP, Atlanta, Georgia 9/30/2007 1 36.2%
CWA New Jersey GOP Straw Poll 9/29/2007 1 77.0%
South Sound Ronald Reagan Republican Club, Tacoma, WA 9/26/2007 1 35.0%
Mackinac Island - Michigan Republican Leadership Conference 9/23/2007 3 10.8%
Oklahoma County GOP Straw Poll 9/23/2007 3 11.0%
Palmetto Family Council Straw Poll 9/20/2007 2 33.0%
Values Voters Presidential Debate Poll 9/17/2007 2 13.0%
Manchester, NH Straw Poll 9/16/2007 1 65.0%
South Dakota Straw Poll 9/03/2007 6 8.0%
Maryland Straw Poll 9/03/2007 1 27.3%
Texas Straw Poll 9/01/2007 3 16.7%
Allegheny County, Pennsylvania 8/26/2007 1 45.2%
DeKalb County, Georgia Straw Poll 8/25/2007 1 24.0%
HRCC (Minnesota) 8/22/2007 3 16.0%
Ronald Reagan Club (Washington) 8/21/2007 1 28.0%
West Alabama 8/18/2007 1 81.2%
Strafford County, NH 8/18/2007 1 72.2%
West Lafayette, Indiana 8/18/2007 4 11.7%
Illinois State Fair 8/17/2007 3 18.9%
Students for Life of America 8/16/2007 4 9.0%
Western Montana Fair 8/15/2007 6 4.0%
Gaston County, NC 8/14/2007 1 36.6%
Ames, Iowa 8/11/2007 5 9.1%
National Federation of Republican Assemblies (NFRA), St. Louis, MO 8/06/2007 3 14.0%
FreedomWorks Straw Poll 8/03/2007 1 56.0%
Georgetown County, SC 7/28/2007 2 17.9%
New Hampshire Taxpayers 7/07/2007 1 65.3%
Cobb County, GA 7/04/2007 2 17.0%
California Republican Assembly 7/01/2007 4 12.0%
National Taxpayers Union 6/16/2007 2 16.7%
Utah GOP convention 6/08/2007 2 5.4%
View a Google Map of Ron Paul's Results in Each Straw Poll
Ron Paul's Head-to-Head Records (Win-Lose-Tie):
Ron Paul v. Rudy Giuliani 33-5-0
Ron Paul v. Mitt Romney 25-13-0
Ron Paul v. Fred Thompson 23-14-0
Ron Paul v. John McCain 34-3-0
Ron Paul v. Mike Huckabee 31-5-1
Ron Paul v. Sam Brownback 34-2-1
Ron Paul v. Tom Tancredo 35-1-0
Ron Paul v. Duncan Hunter 34-2-0
Ron Paul is beating the Republican neocon losers. He is leading Hillary in head to head polls among 40 year olds and nearly even among 30 year olds. He is leading all Republican voters among African American voters. He is leading in fundraising among military and ex-military donors.
Today is the 5th of November. What next?
Watch here as Ron Paul greets his supporters waiting outside the Tonight Show. He set new records for early arrivals waiting to see the show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LZyHoAPL3M |
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Missihippi
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Location: Gwangmyeong
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:51 am Post subject: Re: First the Internet, Now the Grassroots, Ron Paul wins 20 |
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| ontheway wrote: |
Republican Straw Polls:
5th in Iowa, 9%
3rd in Illinois, 18%
1st in New Hampshire
1st in Washington State
1st in Alabama
1st in Georga
As of Nov 2, 2007 Ron Paul has won 20 out of 40 Republican Party straw polls held across America. |
I just did a straw poll in my office, 8 out of 10 have never heard of Ron Paul. The other 2 heard of him, but thought he was an actor. This proves that straw polls are accurate. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Many would not only go along, but join him in advancing the cause of change |
I don't doubt a handful of crass opportunists would join him, but the majority would only join him when they organized a tar and feathering party and rode him out of town on a rail.
You mention Robert LaFollette of Wisconsin. I think a closer comparison would be Jesse Ventura of Minnesota. What happened during his administration? Didn't see much of a revolution coming out of St. Paul, did we? He had the opportunity to
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| carve new coalitions based on issues rather than party |
and what happened? He found out that the parties are already coalitions based on issues.
RP does have one thing going for him. A recent poll said 75% of the public thinks the government and country are on the wrong track. That's a lot of disillusionment and disaffection. That is a huge pool of potential supporters and it would be remarkable if RP couldn't tap into some of that. After all, simplistic ideas appeal to some people. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: First the Internet, Now the Grassroots, Ron Paul wins 20 |
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| Missihippi wrote: |
I just did a straw poll in my office, 8 out of 10 have never heard of Ron Paul. The other 2 heard of him, but thought he was an actor.
This proves that straw polls are accurate. |
It further, and perhaps most clearly proves that you simply need to tell a few more of your friends & colleagues about the present Ron Paul Revolution  |
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