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Len8
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Location: Kyungju
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 Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:56 pm Post subject: Warren Jeffs (Fundamentalist------) |
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Have been watching the take on the trial of this character, and I am amazed at the influence he has over his believers. He permeates every aspect of their lives. Kinda like the Moonies, but not as wealthy.
How in the world can people allow themselves to be brainwashed into following crackpot leaders like him.
Starts in childhood with pavlovian conditioning going on every day of their lives. The rebellious are cast out and made to appear bad. Everything they do is for the good of their organization, and mot themselves. Intrinsic self worth seems to be frowned on. Their sense of importance comes from relationship to their leader. Reinforcement, and rewards come from strict compliance to an organization and it's order. Any alternative behaviour is cause for chastisement, which it's members would find almost impossible to bear. "We must comply" they think " otherwise we just couldn't function because our guilt would kill us". Too me that's their mindset. Some who were mentally stronger left the organization. The majority it seems just plain succumbed. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| The rebellious are cast out and made to appear bad. |
From what I've heard about this organization, the rebellious are far more likely to be kicked out if they are young males, for obvious reasons. I'd imagine that young females are given a bit more latitude in terms of tolerable behavior.
http://tinyurl.com/ysbkt5 |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| Status Of Women Canada has produced a report on polygamy, with a section of fundamentalist Mormons. |
They're not Mormons nor do they claim to be. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
| Status Of Women Canada has produced a report on polygamy, with a section of fundamentalist Mormons. |
They're not Mormons nor do they claim to be. |
Well, if Jeffs and Company don't claim to be Mormons, then they might want to give some thought to changing their name. Because, if...
"Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day Saints" = "Mormons"
then...
"Fundamentalist Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day Saints" can reasonably be construed as equalling "fundamentalist Mormons".
This self-inflicted misunderstanding would probably account for the fact that almost every media outlet I've checked refers to the Jeffs organization as "fundamentalist Mormons". To give just one example...
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ST. GEORGE, Utah, Sept. 13 � The prosecution�s star witness in the trial of the fundamentalist Mormon polygamist leader Warren S. Jeffs testified on Thursday that she was taught to either obey church leaders without question or face dire consequences.
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http://tinyurl.com/27oslc |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:25 am Post subject: |
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How is this a self-inflicted misunderstanding for Mormons when it's not Mormons doing this stuff?
By the way, Mormon = "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" whereas Jeffs is the leader of "Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints"--note the spelling, if you will.
Speaking of media, perhaps they should follow their own stylebooks (yes, I know; and perhaps college students should also read the style manuals for their colleges). The Associated Press Stylebook says:
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| The term Mormon is not properly applied to the other [...] churches that resulted from the split after [Joseph] Smith�s death. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:21 am Post subject: |
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How is this a self-inflicted misunderstanding for Mormons when it's not Mormons doing this stuff?
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I meant it was self-inflicted on the part of the Jeffs crew. According to what you wrote, they do not consider themselves Mormon. But if they include the words "Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints" in their name, they're pretty much begging to be regarded as Mormons.
I acknowledge that the FCJCLDS is not part of the church headquartered in this building.
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| I appreciate your clarification. |
And I appreciate your correction. Thanks. |
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Len8
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Location: Kyungju
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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Wasn't there another splinter group from the same church that were involved in blood sacrifices.
Lawyers involved in commentaries for both the prosecution and the defense are having a field day with their legal interpretation of the proceedings.
Seems as though the main issue is coercian by Jeffs on a young girl to marry a certain individual against her will. Other arguments about the case are concerned about who and what is on trial. The chuch or Jeffs. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| Len8 wrote: |
| Wasn't there another splinter group from the same church that were involved in blood sacrifices. |
Friend, that would be a long answer. So far the best place I've found for the answer to that is Divergent Paths of the Restoratin. I have an early edition of the book here in Korea (but left it in my desk at work) and a later edition in storage back in California.
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| Lawyers involved in commentaries for both the prosecution and the defense are having a field day with their legal interpretation of the proceedings. |
Sounds like typical "Wild West Lawyering" which too many places aren't immune to. My home county's been known to go in for that also.
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| Seems as though the main issue is coercian by Jeffs on a young girl to marry a certain individual against her will. Other arguments about the case are concerned about who and what is on trial. The chuch or Jeffs. |
In Jeffs' denomination, only he can officiate at a purported marriage. That automatically means he's involved during any criminal act connected with that purported marriage ceremony if the marriage itself is in violation of state or federal law. |
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