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Canada's Anglos struggle with French
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Adventurer



Joined: 28 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:42 am    Post subject: Canada's Anglos struggle with French Reply with quote

'Parlez-vous anglais?': Canada's Anglos struggle with French
Tue Sep 25, 7:05 PM



MONTREAL (AFP) - A majority of Canada's anglophones admit to having a subpar knowledge of the French language, but support the country's official bilingual policy, a poll out Tuesday showed.

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About 70 percent of anglophones want to be more proficient in French, a language that only five percent of them say they speak, read and write fluently, according to the Angus Reid Strategies poll.


English is the mother tongue of 17.3 million Canadians, while French is the first language for 6.7 million people, most of whom live in Quebec province, according to the latest census in 2001.


The census also counted 5.2 million people who consider themselves bilingual, representing 17.7 percent of Canada's population.


Some 44 percent of anglophones admit having no French speaking ability, while 43 percent say they have some knowledge. For reading, 43 percent have no ability and 45 percent some knowledge, while 57 percent say they have no writing ability and 33 percent claim some knowledge.


Despite their lack of French-speaking skills, 58 percent of anglophones say Canada should continue to have two official languages and 56 percent say they should know at least a little French, the poll found.


Only about six percent say they are highly proficient in each language skill.


The highest rate of bilingualism among anglophones was in Quebec, where 80 percent say they are highly proficient or fluent French speakers and 56 percent can read the language.


In Canadian provinces outside Quebec, French is the second most widely spoken language, followed closely by Mandarin.


Statistics Canada, a government agency, will release in December its most recent language census.


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/070925/canada/canada_language
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Pluto



Joined: 19 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am an anglophone, though an American one. I have to say though I never found learning Spanish that difficult, at least compared to Koeran. I feel I have a high degree of fluency in Spanish so I wonder what the statistics are for bilingual Americans. It seems to be de moda right now to learn Spanish among politicians and business people.
I know that Americans are famous for not knowing second languages although I think that trend has been changing in the last decade or so due to the gaining Latino culture within American society.
As far as French is concerned, I cannot speak nor understand it. However, reading in French is quite easy I find. I have no problems reading signs or even newspapers in French.
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littlelisa



Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Quebec, I would never call myself bilingual, because I'd only use that term to Francophone Quebecers if I spoke both languages perfectly. I'd call myself bilingual everywhere outside Quebec (and maybe some other French speaking countries). I can certainly communicate very well in French, though I have a slight accent, and sometimes mix up gender of objects.

In Quebec, most Anglos speak French well. Outside Quebec, only New Brunswick and parts of Ontario are really bilingual. I think a small community somewhere in Alberta too. Officially, only New Brunswick is a bilingual province. Quebec is French, and the others are all English provinces. Since other provinces rarely hear much French anyway except for a little bit in the classroom, it's no surprise that most are not bilingual.

Actually, I don't know why this information would be a surprise to anyone.
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Zutronius



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Location: Suncheon

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I def. wish I had a firm grasp on the second language of my country.
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peppermint



Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And this is news how?
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IncognitoHFX



Joined: 06 May 2007
Location: Yeongtong, Suwon

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pluto wrote:
I am an anglophone, though an American one. I have to say though I never found learning Spanish that difficult, at least compared to Koeran. I feel I have a high degree of fluency in Spanish so I wonder what the statistics are for bilingual Americans. It seems to be de moda right now to learn Spanish among politicians and business people.
I know that Americans are famous for not knowing second languages although I think that trend has been changing in the last decade or so due to the gaining Latino culture within American society.
As far as French is concerned, I cannot speak nor understand it. However, reading in French is quite easy I find. I have no problems reading signs or even newspapers in French.


Spanish seems like a relatively easy language to pick up (compared to Korean), and French is a flat out easy language to pick up. I'd love to be bilingual, but sadly, French isn't very high on the curriculum in most places outside of Quebec.

I think when I go back to Canada--a long time in the future, and maybe not for a long time--my first order of business will be to learn French. Granted, I speak and understand more Korean than I do French, but I figure living in Montreal for awhile will fix that. Any well meaning English speaker can learn French in less than a year if they are dedicated.

I bet someone really dedicated can get over the hump in a matter of months. Considering how much you can pick up just by picking up a French newspaper without any proficiency, it is really not a hard language to learn from English.
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blaseblasphemener



Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

littlelisa wrote:
In Quebec, I would never call myself bilingual, because I'd only use that term to Francophone Quebecers if I spoke both languages perfectly. I'd call myself bilingual everywhere outside Quebec (and maybe some other French speaking countries). I can certainly communicate very well in French, though I have a slight accent, and sometimes mix up gender of objects.

In Quebec, most Anglos speak French well. Outside Quebec, only New Brunswick and parts of Ontario are really bilingual. I think a small community somewhere in Alberta too. Officially, only New Brunswick is a bilingual province. Quebec is French, and the others are all English provinces. Since other provinces rarely hear much French anyway except for a little bit in the classroom, it's no surprise that most are not bilingual.

Actually, I don't know why this information would be a surprise to anyone.


There are several French communities in the Prairie provinces. Don't forget, Louis Riel was from Manitoba. Bonnyville, Alberta has a lot of relatives of Chretien living there too.
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blaseblasphemener wrote:
There are several French communities in the Prairie provinces. Don't forget, Louis Riel was from Manitoba. Bonnyville, Alberta has a lot of relatives of Chretien living there too.


If prairie french is anything like the french of my grandparents from Belle River, Ontario (around Windsor), that's gotta be one highly bastardized french. I was in french immersion in quebec and when my grandparents spoke their Belle River french I couldn't understand a word.
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IncognitoHFX



Joined: 06 May 2007
Location: Yeongtong, Suwon

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

littlelisa wrote:

In Quebec, most Anglos speak French well. Outside Quebec, only New Brunswick and parts of Ontario are really bilingual. I think a small community somewhere in Alberta too. Officially, only New Brunswick is a bilingual province. Quebec is French, and the others are all English provinces. Since other provinces rarely hear much French anyway except for a little bit in the classroom, it's no surprise that most are not bilingual.


New Brunswick is debatably bilingual. I lived there for a couple years (Moncton), and knew a large proportion of non-French speaking people, and many of the French speaking people I knew spoke a kind of French referred to as Chiac, which actually isn't pure French. Its more a half-French, half-English hybrid that no self-respecting French person would understand very well ("parkez la carez in le garagez", et cetera).
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Pluto



Joined: 19 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IncognitoHFX wrote:
Pluto wrote:
I am an anglophone, though an American one. I have to say though I never found learning Spanish that difficult, at least compared to Koeran. I feel I have a high degree of fluency in Spanish so I wonder what the statistics are for bilingual Americans. It seems to be de moda right now to learn Spanish among politicians and business people.
I know that Americans are famous for not knowing second languages although I think that trend has been changing in the last decade or so due to the gaining Latino culture within American society.
As far as French is concerned, I cannot speak nor understand it. However, reading in French is quite easy I find. I have no problems reading signs or even newspapers in French.


Spanish seems like a relatively easy language to pick up (compared to Korean), and French is a flat out easy language to pick up. I'd love to be bilingual, but sadly, French isn't very high on the curriculum in most places outside of Quebec.

I think when I go back to Canada--a long time in the future, and maybe not for a long time--my first order of business will be to learn French. Granted, I speak and understand more Korean than I do French, but I figure living in Montreal for awhile will fix that. Any well meaning English speaker can learn French in less than a year if they are dedicated.

I bet someone really dedicated can get over the hump in a matter of months. Considering how much you can pick up just by picking up a French newspaper without any proficiency, it is really not a hard language to learn from English.


I always imagined Spanish to be a much easier language than French. For one, Spanish is 100% phonetical; There are no silent letters and letters are always pronounced as they are written. Just my perception though.
As for reading French newspapers, I speak both English and Spanish making it easier for me to read French.
Likewise, I wonder how much Spanish a bilingual Canadian can understand. They might be able to understand newspapers as well as Telemundo and Univision. I'm willing to bet they would have an easy time. A que s�.


Last edited by Pluto on Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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stevemcgarrett



Joined: 24 Mar 2006

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to be merely flippant, but my response is: "So what?"

Yes, I know Canada is multiculturally obsessed and bilingual. Again, I say, "So what?"

Multiculturalism is one thing; but giving equal status to two languages at the national level I find foolish and divisive, which is why the patronization of Spanish in the U.S. bothers me so much. That and the fact that Spanish speakers are the only linguistic group who the American government panders to. It's all about votes and money--reaching out to consumers.
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Adventurer



Joined: 28 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IncognitoHFX wrote:
Pluto wrote:
I am an anglophone, though an American one. I have to say though I never found learning Spanish that difficult, at least compared to Koeran. I feel I have a high degree of fluency in Spanish so I wonder what the statistics are for bilingual Americans. It seems to be de moda right now to learn Spanish among politicians and business people.
I know that Americans are famous for not knowing second languages although I think that trend has been changing in the last decade or so due to the gaining Latino culture within American society.
As far as French is concerned, I cannot speak nor understand it. However, reading in French is quite easy I find. I have no problems reading signs or even newspapers in French.


Spanish seems like a relatively easy language to pick up (compared to Korean), and French is a flat out easy language to pick up. I'd love to be bilingual, but sadly, French isn't very high on the curriculum in most places outside of Quebec.

I think when I go back to Canada--a long time in the future, and maybe not for a long time--my first order of business will be to learn French. Granted, I speak and understand more Korean than I do French, but I figure living in Montreal for awhile will fix that. Any well meaning English speaker can learn French in less than a year if they are dedicated.

I bet someone really dedicated can get over the hump in a matter of months. Considering how much you can pick up just by picking up a French newspaper without any proficiency, it is really not a hard language to learn from English.



We do have a French language meeting group, but few anglophones are interested in learning French. We do have a few Canadians who attend.
You're more than welcome to join.

I would consider myself one of those 5% who is fluent, though my French is not perfect. I can speak, write, and read it rather well.

I would not underestimate the difficulty of really learning French very, very, very well. I listen to French at least an hour everyday (sometimes up to 4 hours), unless I am taking a break. Actually, one of my Korean adult students is doing the same for his English and taking my advice by listening to English language CDs everyday on his commute to work.

We are lucky as English speakers that French and English are quite close. Maybe 2 to 3 words in the English language derive from the French language. After all, for hundreds of years many of the kings spoke French like King Richard and King John and Edward the Black Prince etc, and, of course, William (Guillaume) the Conqueror.


Last edited by Adventurer on Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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Adventurer



Joined: 28 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mindmetoo wrote:
blaseblasphemener wrote:
There are several French communities in the Prairie provinces. Don't forget, Louis Riel was from Manitoba. Bonnyville, Alberta has a lot of relatives of Chretien living there too.


If prairie french is anything like the french of my grandparents from Belle River, Ontario (around Windsor), that's gotta be one highly bastardized french. I was in french immersion in quebec and when my grandparents spoke their Belle River french I couldn't understand a word.


When people are taught French, they are not taugh Quebec French or the style of French that is often common to Canadian French. They are taught standard French. A person should not only be taught standard French, but also how Quebecois French is different sometimes from standard French. For example, Tu dis la verite in Quebecois might be said Tsu dzee la verite. It comes from a very old style of speaking that you won't get from most text books. J'ai dit would often be heard as J'ai dzee.... And sometimes moi is pronounced Mway by some Quebecois...
I think without that, sometimes the French taught is not so practical for someone who moves to Montreal.
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Pluto



Joined: 19 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Multiculturalism is one thing; but giving equal status to two languages at the national level I find foolish and divisive, which is why the patronization of Spanish in the U.S. bothers me so much.


Well, it doesn't have to be divisive. I speak Spanish so I have a different perspective. Aside from that, the de facto national language is still English. Only the DOJ has really made any effort to go billingual but you still don't see many DOJ documents in Spanish. Street signs are in English. Also, many states have made Englsih their only official language.



Quote:
That and the fact that Spanish speakers are the only linguistic group who the American government panders to. It's all about votes and money--reaching out to consumers.


I love Democracy and free markets. �Viva la diferencia! Smile
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Paddycakes



Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
New Brunswick is debatably bilingual. I lived there for a couple years (Moncton),


Yes, Moncton... named after an English war criminal who orchestrated the ethnic cleansing of francophones in Acadia....

Why don't we rename Toronto after the German guy who orchestrated the London Blitz... somehow don't think it's gonna happen...
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