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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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 Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:28 pm Post subject: Ron Paul in documentary about the Fed/loss of Gold Standard |
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This is fascinating/scary stuff.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ji_G0MqAqq8
Makes you wonder about the effectiveness of the media when this topic is never covered in conventional media. Makes you realize how 9/11 truth movements can be utterly ignored by the press, yet large percentages of people around the world, including the U.S. believe the official story is a cover-up. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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The loss of the Gold standard doesn't really matter. Every currency is implicitly backed by every commodity in the market. The annihilation of the Gold standard created a new standard by which every other thing in the economy is set against the dollar; including other currencies.
Just another issue on which Ron Paul shows he's a crazy loopy libertarian. |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
The loss of the Gold standard doesn't really matter. Every currency is implicitly backed by every commodity in the market. The annihilation of the Gold standard created a new standard by which every other thing in the economy is set against the dollar; including other currencies.
Just another issue on which Ron Paul shows he's a crazy loopy libertarian. |
How do you set a standard against thin air?
You're basically saying that we currently have a bartering system, only with currencies, not commodities, yes? |
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jonnyh
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| The loss of the Gold standard doesn't really matter. Every currency is implicitly backed by every commodity in the market. |
"Implicitly" -- a good word for it.
It's implied, it's understood, it's so obvious we don't have to prove anything.
Why would you expect us trustworthy politicians and bureaucrats to have to tie the value of money to any verifiable objective standard? Just trust us to do things in your best interest and pay no attention to that nonsense about hidden inflation due to printing more money to pay for our debts.
And don't look behind that curtain over there. It's only the Federal Reserve. Nothing to hide there. You people don't need to have any concern. The government is looking out for you. |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/14/business/14bank.html?ei=5065&en=6489772aacb69342&ex=1192939200&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print
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The New York Times
Printer Friendly Format Sponsored By
October 14, 2007
Banks May Pool Billions to Stop Securities Sell-off
By ERIC DASH
Several of the world�s biggest banks are in talks to put up about $75 billion in a backup fund that could be used to buy risky mortgage securities and other assets, a move designed to ease pressure on a crucial part of the credit markets that threatens the broader economy.
Citigroup, Bank of America and JPMorgan Chase, along with several other financial institutions, have been meeting to come up with a plan to create a fund that could prevent a sharp sell-off in securities owned by bank-affiliated investment vehicles. The meetings, which began three weeks ago, have been orchestrated by senior officials at the Treasury Department, and the discussions have intensified in the last few days.
A broad framework for an agreement could be reached as early as tomorrow, according to people with knowledge of the discussions, but many important details still need to be hammered out. Another round of discussions is taking place this weekend, and it is still possible that the parties will not reach an agreement.
�Treasury is very serious about getting some solution in place to take away the fear hanging over the markets,� said Alex Roever, a credit analyst at JPMorgan Chase who has been following the discussions but is not involved in them. �It is a very challenging thing to do. There are so many parties involved and they all don�t agree.
The proposal echoes the 1998 bailout of the hedge fund Long Term Capital Management, when a group of big banks came together to prevent the fund from collapsing after it made a series of bad bets. And the current round of crisis-driven collaboration illustrates the heightened level of concern among both government and financial players.
While there are signs that the broader credit markets have begun to stabilize after the Federal Reserve lowered interest rates last month, a pocket of the commercial paper market remains under siege: structured investment vehicles, known as SIVs. The fear is that problems with these vehicles could infect the broader economy.
SIVs, which issue short-term notes to invest in longer-term securities with higher yields, are often organized by banks but are not actually owned or held by them. They are supposed to be financed through the issuance of commercial paper backed by pools of home loans and credit card debt, but the loss of confidence in the quality of subprime mortgage bonds has also tainted these securities.
Analysts say that investors have all but stopped buying SIV-affiliated commercial paper, and the worry is that the 30 or so SIVs will unload billions of dollars of mortgage-related assets all at once. That would put intense pressure on prices. As Wall Street firms and hedge funds mark value of similar investments they held to their new lower values, they face potentially huge hits to their profits.
Still, the impact on the biggest banks is even more severe. In times of crisis, they are committed � either legally or to maintain their reputations � to stepping in to buy those securities. Banks have already been buying significant amounts of commercial paper in recent weeks, even though they did not have to. But if they are forced to bring those assets onto their balance sheets, they might be less willing to lend to businesses and consumers. That could set off a credit crunch and thrust the economy into a recession.
The proposal being floated calls for the creation of a �Super-SIV,� or a SIV-like fund fully backed by several of the world�s biggest banks to provide emergency financing. The Super-SIV would issue short-term notes to finance the purchase of assets held by the SIVs affiliated with the banks, with the hope of reassuring investors.
But whether the banks would buy the assets directly or just buy the short-term debt is still unclear, according to people briefed on the situation. So are other aspects, like the amount of capital each bank would need to contribute, how it would be administrated, and the fee structures and cost burdens.
The effort to create a backup fund began about three weeks ago, when the Treasury secretary, Henry M. Paulson, called a meeting in Washington that included the chief executives of Citigroup, Bank of America, JPMorgan and other big banks. With Wall Street firms having almost no luck finding buyers for mortgage-backed securities and derivatives, Mr. Paulson wanted to see what could be done to relieve the bottleneck.
Several rounds of discussions followed � in Washington, New York and on conference calls � led by two senior Treasury Department officials: Robert Steel, the under secretary for domestic finance and a former Goldman Sachs executive who is a close adviser Mr. Paulson; and Anthony Ryan, a former investment banker who is now assistant Treasury secretary for financial markets.
Besides hearing from senior executives from each of the big banks, the group also sought ideas from others. Several big international banks, including Barclays and HSBC, have been asked about their interest in participating. The group also reached out to several of the major structured investment funds, as well as big institutional investors in the commercial paper markets.
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Edmund L. Andrews contributed reporting. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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Just another issue on which Ron Paul shows he's a crazy loopy libertarian.
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Agreed.
For nostalgic reasons:
"Having behind us the producing masses of this nation and the world, supported by the commercial interests, the laboring interests and the toilers everywhere, we will answer their demand for a gold standard by saying to them: You shall not press down upon the brow of labor this crown of thorns, you shall not crucify mankind upon a cross of gold."
W. J. Bryan 1896 |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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Just another issue on which Ron Paul shows he's a crazy loopy libertarian.
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Agreed.
For nostalgic reasons:
"Having behind us the producing masses of this nation and the world, supported by the commercial interests, the laboring interests and the toilers everywhere, we will answer their demand for a gold standard by saying to them: You shall not press down upon the brow of labor this crown of thorns, you shall not crucify mankind upon a cross of gold."
W. J. Bryan 1896 |
Are you sure you're American? You are aware that the Founding Fathers spoke out against paper money, right? Or are you one of those who believe the Constitution is quaint. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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Please tell me you are not claiming there is something in the Constitution about paper money.
You aren't one of those semi-educated foreigners who confuse Jefferson's allergy to strong central government with all the rest of the Founding Fathers, are you? That would be embarrassing if it were true. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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Just another issue on which Ron Paul shows he's a crazy loopy libertarian.
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Agreed.
For nostalgic reasons:
"Having behind us the producing masses of this nation and the world, supported by the commercial interests, the laboring interests and the toilers everywhere, we will answer their demand for a gold standard by saying to them: You shall not press down upon the brow of labor this crown of thorns, you shall not crucify mankind upon a cross of gold."
W. J. Bryan 1896 |
Yeah, Bryan. He was the cowardly lion in the Wizard of Oz. I thought of him too when I read jonnyh's reply.
I, at first, kind of liked Ron Paul, but he's a total libertarian populist, which really shouldn't even make any sense. This idea that the elites like it better without a gold standard. Why? Explain it to us, Ron Paul! YOU CAN'T!
I mean, I think Joo's right on this one. Ron Paul has contempt for a lot of his followers. Really. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: Ron Paul in documentary about the Fed/loss of Gold Stand |
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FYI, I generally write off any post that uses Youtube as its point of reference. At guess at least you're not defying us to watch the entire 160 minute documentary it comes from.
Doesn't anyone read or write anymore? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, Bryan. He was the cowardly lion in the Wizard of Oz. |
  I'd never noticed how much they look alike. Cute. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:55 am Post subject: |
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The gold standard is silly. Gold is not an objective standard. If people don't want it in wedding rings and plating their forks, it loses a great deal of value. If industry finds something cheaper it loses a great deal of value. The value of money should reflect the economy itself. The economy is a vast and diverse enterprise. Money should be backed by the collective perception of all those who participate in the economy, not just those who value gold.
It's a good thing for the government (via the independent fed) to have control of the money supply. It can quickly react to things like inflation or a need for more money in the economy. If there's a big demand for loans and banks can create more money, we'll have huge interest rates. |
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ernie
Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Location: asdfghjk
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| Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| news flash: the government of the US does NOT control its money because the federal reserve is NOT part of the government! |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ernie wrote: |
| news flash: the government of the US does NOT control its money because the federal reserve is NOT part of the government! |
You'll note I noted that too. The government does have control in that it picks the board. The fed is not a constitutionally defined government structure. Congress could easily legislate it away and take direct control of the money supply if it felt the fed was not exercising proper control over the money supply. The fed is, ultimately, defined as an independent government agency. Clearly presidents pick fed heads that have monetary policies in keeping with theirs.
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| The seven members of the Board of Governors are appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate to serve 14-year terms of office. Members may serve only one full term, but a member who has been appointed to complete an unexpired term may be reappointed to a full term. The President designates, and the Senate confirms, two members of the Board to be Chairman and Vice Chairman, for four-year terms. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, Bryan. He was the cowardly lion in the Wizard of Oz. |
That is disputed.
http://www.halcyon.com/piglet/Populism.htm
Interesting controversy, all the same. |
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