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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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| What is your opinion about studying Korean? |
| I study/will study Korean. It's a crime to live in a foreign country and not learn the language. |
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23% |
[ 24 ] |
| I study/will study Korean. It greatly adds to the Korean experience. |
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26% |
[ 27 ] |
| I'd like to study Korean but I don't have enough time. |
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9% |
[ 10 ] |
| I'd like to study Korean but it's too difficult/I've never had a gift for languages. |
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7% |
[ 8 ] |
| I'm not hostile to studying Korean but I'd never use it again after leaving Korea. |
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15% |
[ 16 ] |
| What's the point? Loads of people speak English here anyway. |
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4% |
[ 5 ] |
| Other (Please state) |
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10% |
[ 11 ] |
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| Total Votes : 101 |
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doggyji
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Toronto - Hamilton - Vineland - St. Catherines
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 Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| nateium wrote: |
| The problem is how it's spoken.... |
Even though two people speak the same language, they can sound very differently. I speak the standard Seoulite Korean with no harsh sounds or whiny tone.  |
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doggyji
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Toronto - Hamilton - Vineland - St. Catherines
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| excitinghead wrote: |
But one important thing that other posters haven't said is this: almost without exception, the biggest whiners, complainers, and moaners about Korea can't say s*hit in Korean. I'm doing an MA in East Asian studies, so sure, I do consider myself a bit of an expert, and yeah, I'm an old-timer, and older than most newbies here to boot, so I am naturally patronising to newbies. I admit all those, but that's not why I say the above.
I say it because if can't read the newspapers, read netizens' comments, listen to the radio, understand the news, or speak to normal Koreans, then you have no idea that most of what you complain about Korea...a hell of a lot of Koreans complain about too, and are trying to make it better. Koreans know the education system completely sucks for instance, but there are interest groups and politics involved and so no matter how eloquent a drunken newbie's 15 minute rant about it in an Itaewon bar is...his or her ideas probably wouldn't work.
Don't get me wrong, Korea has a hell of a lot of problems which Koreans are not worried about and/or dealing with intelligently enough, there's a lot that deserves ranting about, and I do myself with my Western friends all the time. But I don't generally want to hang out with people not studying Korean because they just have no idea what's going through people's minds here, what occupys them, what they're worried about, what really happens here, how Korea really works...hell, as I type this, I realise I may as well hang out with a child instead. |
It's pretty amusing, isn't it? Imagine me moaning and complaining about Canada 24/7, not speaking a word of English with my extremely limited interactions and perspective. Wouldn't people LOL at me?  |
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doggyji
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Toronto - Hamilton - Vineland - St. Catherines
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| kiwiduncan wrote: |
| My main stumbling block is that I just don't feel particularly motivated to study these days as it's hard to find Koreans who i really have a lot in common with. |
What's your interest or hobbies? You can always hit Daum Cafes and meet new people. If that's not what you mean by "having a lot in common with", excuse me. |
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doggyji
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Toronto - Hamilton - Vineland - St. Catherines
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| Another good tip when ordering something and the employee is using English is to throw in a word that they don't expect - if the employee at Starbucks asks you if you want the drink 히어 or 투고 you can say 그냥 일회용컵으로 할께요 and then they know you don't need any more English help for the order. |
That's a brilliant strategy. |
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Atavistic
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: How totally stupid that Korean doesn't show in this area.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| kiwiduncan wrote: |
| My main stumbling block is that I just don't feel particularly motivated to study these days as it's hard to find Koreans who i really have a lot in common with. |
Join a club of Koreans. Photography, hiking, SCUBA, whatever. |
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Been There, Taught That
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Mungyeong: not a village, not yet a metroplex.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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I do think it's a crime to spend significant time in-country and not have a mind to communicate with the natives. That's partially because it's perfectly normal for the natives not to speak nor care to speak your language. The burden is on the foreigner in this regard, because so much of the total overall national experience is embodied in the language.
But don't skew the perspective. If you think that learning the language is going to get you fully integrated to the point where you 'totally get the people' and earn respect for joining in the mindset and the struggle, that's not what's going to happen. Language is an identity, and you already have one: your own.
However, when I investigate the culture of everyday life in just about any country, one of the first things I find is that making an attempt to speak the language is generally appreciated and well-received and almost right away puts people at ease. On the other hand, continuing to stay away from language acquisition--for whatever reason, and no matter how many foreigners one has in one's circle--somehow gives the friendliest foreigner a mysterious, nonaccommodating air. It's not hard to see why, because cultures can be world's apart in every way. When food, politics and religion can't become bridges into the life of a people, language always can.
So, to me, estrangement from learning the language is a crime--against yourself. It puts you totally at odds with the whole culture, even if you don't realize it. And can teachers of English in a country filled with students who don't seem to catch on that quickly afford to be at odds with the way their students think?
Native English speakers all are in perfect position to know what hearing 'those inconsiderate ***'s' 'refusing to speak' their country's language feels like. Resisting the language is, in my opinion, also primarily responsible for bad attitudes and sour grapes. The more you know, the less you misunderstand. |
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kiwiduncan
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| whatever wrote: |
Perhaps that you state you're in Oxford, England, taints your perspective?
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Nope, back in Korea now - oh how I miss English beer, cheap fruit and good bread.  |
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kiwiduncan
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| doggyji wrote: |
| kiwiduncan wrote: |
| My main stumbling block is that I just don't feel particularly motivated to study these days as it's hard to find Koreans who i really have a lot in common with. |
What's your interest or hobbies? You can always hit Daum Cafes and meet new people. If that's not what you mean by "having a lot in common with", excuse me. |
Well, I'm exagerating to be honest - my main interests are mountain biking and environmental issues and I've certainly met a good number of Korean cyclists in my time in Korea who have had no interest in practicing English. Last Saturday I was with some middle-aged cyclists who - quite justifiably - advised me that we should use Korean while out riding. And I'm spending the day with the Yeosu chapter of 환경운동연합 (Korean Federation of Environmental Movements) tomorrow so I should meet some cool Koreans there.
Ironically, when I study Korean I'm definately not motivated by any great passion for Korean popular culture (I know I should watch dramas to improve my listening but I'd rather eat pencil shavings) or the thought that I'll spend the rest of my life in Korea. I just like the idea of being able to get by and show some respect while I am here. Also, it'll be cool to speak Korean in New Zealand one day - getting involved with immigrant groups and helping act as a bridge between Koreans new to New Zealand and the rest of the populace.
I like the image of me sitting in a Korean restaurant, speaking Korean with a bunch of Koreans - but doing all of this in New Zealand.  |
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Atavistic
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: How totally stupid that Korean doesn't show in this area.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| kiwiduncan wrote: |
Also, it'll be cool to speak Korean in New Zealand one day - getting involved with immigrant groups and helping act as a bridge between Koreans new to New Zealand and the rest of the populace.
I like the image of me sitting in a Korean restaurant, speaking Korean with a bunch of Koreans - but doing all of this in New Zealand. |
I have the image of sitting in front of my sister-in-law and saying to my boyfriend, "I hate that woman" in Korean with a big grin on my face. |
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excitinghead
Joined: 18 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| kiwiduncan wrote: |
Also, it'll be cool to speak Korean in New Zealand one day - getting involved with immigrant groups and helping act as a bridge between Koreans new to New Zealand and the rest of the populace.
I like the image of me sitting in a Korean restaurant, speaking Korean with a bunch of Koreans - but doing all of this in New Zealand. |
I feel exactly the same way and have exactly the same image. Even though my Korean wasn't that good at all the last time I went back to Auckland in 2002 (too long ago, I know), it was great speaking Korean at Korean/Asian food stores and in Korean restaurants, and everyone was very happy to speak Korean to me.
I'm going to Perth for 2 weeks and Auckland for 2 weeks this December/January, and really looking forward to having some much longer conversations in Korean with Korean-New Zealanders (and Australians) this time round, and not just because I worry that my Korean will deteriotate if I don't speak enough of it for a month.
When my family and I eventually return to live in New Zealand, when my daughter is of middle school age or earlier, I also plan to get involved with immigrant groups there, and we'll probably have more Korean friends than New Zealanders for a while. To be honest, before I came to Korea for the first time I didn't really have any language problems with Koreans and or East Asians in New Zealand, but I just lacked a connection so to speak, so it'll be great literally having this whole previously-ignored (for me) sector of New Zealand society opened up to me once I settle in NZ again. |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Jesus, what's with all the long, incredibly boring posts? Be more concise, please.
I love Korean knowledge, but hate speaking it in the same way I love playing my guitar and keyboard by myself but am uncomfortable playing in front of others. I view everything as a reflection of my intelligence and status, so feel that I'm being judged when I speak. If I muck something up or forget a really easy word, I lose confidence. I've not picked up my 'Ross King, Continuing Korean' for ages. |
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excitinghead
Joined: 18 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| SPINOZA wrote: |
Jesus, what's with all the long, incredibly boring posts? Be more concise, please.
I love Korean knowledge, but hate speaking it in the same way I love playing my guitar and keyboard by myself but am uncomfortable playing in front of others. I view everything as a reflection of my intelligence and status, so feel that I'm being judged when I speak. If I muck something up or forget a really easy word, I lose confidence. I've not picked up my 'Ross King, Continuing Korean' for ages. |
Why so many long boring posts? Different concerns I guess. I think you put your point across well, and actually I feel exactly the same way, but I'm personally very very bored with reading for the 1000th time on Daveseslcafe that someone began but doesn't want to study Korean anymore, and so hasn't picked up their book in ages...seriously, how interesting is that?  I'd much rather read a post with a fresh perspecitve on it. |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| excitinghead wrote: |
| SPINOZA wrote: |
Jesus, what's with all the long, incredibly boring posts? Be more concise, please.
I love Korean knowledge, but hate speaking it in the same way I love playing my guitar and keyboard by myself but am uncomfortable playing in front of others. I view everything as a reflection of my intelligence and status, so feel that I'm being judged when I speak. If I muck something up or forget a really easy word, I lose confidence. I've not picked up my 'Ross King, Continuing Korean' for ages. |
Why so many long boring posts? Different concerns I guess. I think you put your point across well, and actually I feel exactly the same way, but I'm personally very very bored with reading for the 1000th time on Daveseslcafe that someone began but doesn't want to study Korean anymore, and so hasn't picked up their book in ages...seriously, how interesting is that? I'd much rather read a post with a fresh perspecitve on it. |
No need to take constructive criticism so personally. |
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whatever
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Location: Korea: More fun than jail.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Whoops...I missed it. Apparently, there was something constructive in his post. Damn it! |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: Enough |
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| Intrepid wrote: |
| Learned enough to get by in most conversations. When someone compliments me I say I'm like a first generation immigrant taxi driver in NYC (his English, my Korean)--I can debrouiller, but that's it. No incentive to learn any more, and too hard. |
How do you say that in Korean? |
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