Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Big_Bird]

Since 911 I've been somewhat amused by how many smug western men like to point out that unlike in 'muslim cultures,' western women are treated equally. Yeah. Right.

Second-Class Women

[blaseblasphemener]

It's easy to look at statistics and say something is so and so. Personal experience usually gives us a good idea of things that statistics can't. I worked in many workplaces back in Canada. Here are some observations:

a) women work their butts off in their twenties, but then start having kids in their late twenties or early thirties, and most become the secondary bread-winners in the family. Employers know this when hiring, so women are at a disadvantage. Unfair to the women for whom this is not the case, but still true.

b) women tend to defer to men in leadership positions. Men just naturally command more authority, generally.

c) It's often not what you know, but who you know. Men are generally better at schmoozing with men, and women. Women tend to be catty with each other, and don't have the same sense of team that men tend to have. This hurts women when it comes to forming alliances and networking.

That said, I've known women who don't fit this mold, but in general, I've seen this play out time and time again. What it comes down to in general is basic biology. The need to reproduce, the changes a baby brings in one's priorities, and the different roles men and women play. I don't see that fundamentally changing.

[Kuros]

Big Bird, if your intention was to humiliate all the anti-Muslims on the board, I urge you to try again in some other way.

[Tony_Balony]

Women aren't naturally aggressive and if they are, they are less aggressive than men. In the protected and artificial world of education, women do well because the system is structured that way.

But when A earning Western woman vs Japanese corporations, Al- Queda, Communist China Mafia, MS-13 or the Russian Mob, the women are usually left complaining about fairness there too after they get creamed.

[just4u]

[just4u]

[mindmetoo]

There's a great book by the woman who helped write the Japanese postwar constitution. She was always amused by the same attitude. The American occupiers were rather aghast at the status of women in Japan but couldn't see they were treating American women as less than equals.

That said, sorry but no one gives up power. If you want more power, you have to fight for it. You'll notice, for example, migrant workers in Korea have all kinds of legislators passing bills to protect them from abuse and no one working hard to protect Western hagwon teachers. Why? The migrant workers fought for their rights. We don't.

If in Western society you still feel you lack equality, well, fight for it. You're the majority population. Are you so lazy? Geez. I have to laugh every time I hear a woman complain about how expensive pantyhose is and how easily it runs, or how expensive women's clothes are and how low quality they are or how much more they have to pay for haircuts. The simple solution is boycott. Write letters. Raise a fuss. Use the power as a consumer and a voter. But they never do...

And women earn less. Well, women are also taking sick days to care for their child. Women are taking breaks to have children. There are many social factors that slow a woman's career. You want big raises you have to pull for it. You have to break eggs and make threats "I'm going to walk if I don't get more." Many women value getting along over this kind of confrontation.

[dogbert]

Yes, but you Western women can choose your own wardrobe (within limits, of course).

You've come a long way, baby!

[stevemcgarrett]

Big Bird:

Everything isn't hunky dory with Western women but compared to when I was starting college and certainly in contrast to most Muslim women, you are doing much, much better.

Problem is that many women in the West (not all, of course) want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to be treated like ladies but demand the same rights as a man. Can't have it both ways unless your bi-sexual, maybe.

Women should be paid the same as men for the same work unless through affirmative action hiring they don't perform up to snuff.

And, personally, I'd like to see more women at the helm of state.

Case in point: hat new Argentinian president is not only smart and a populist, she's hot.

In sum, Western women are still unfortunately second class citizens in some situations, but at least they're treated as citizens. The same cannot be said for the majority of Muslim women.

[Tony_Balony]

Women in combat? Most of those Abu-Graib pics have Private England in them. Historical embarrasment of biblical proportions.

[bucheon bum]

[Atavistic]

I would LOVE to see a study that compares what men with children, men without children, women with children, and women without children make.

Children are expensive, in many ways people don't consider.

[Big_Bird]

People are quick to jump up and cite children as the reason for this gap in pay. But childless women are also affected by this pay gap.

Even in the quoted part of the OP we find:

[mindmetoo]

[Big_Bird]