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Cognorati
Joined: 09 Sep 2007
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 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:04 pm Post subject: When "No One" Is Looking: Whites Become More Racis |
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After the reading the shocking racism of the "Nigerians are Bad..." thread, I have a theory about what happens in Korea, especially by the level of racism spouted by certain "racial" groups.
I've noticed that without any external pressure or repercussions, and when certain people believe that a minority group is not present or able to influence, they become more racist: I think Korea allows working class and lower middle-class whites an opportunity to be more racist, to allow what they've been thinking to be aired publicly.
It's seems that whites mind Korean racism when they are actually forced to experience what any non-white minority experiences in a Western country. However, if whites are the recipients of racist privilege, well then, they don't mind racism over here at all.
And when it comes to racism that Koreans direct at certain groups (blacks), they do not disagree but actually empathize: so whites working in Korea don't mind racism or racist privilege, they just think it should be directed at certain parties. In effect, they resent any loss of status that they experience, but believe others should be treated appropriately (i.e.: should be subject to racism as it is only natural).
This is all very good to know as I, a black person, interact with whites in Korea. |
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stevieg4ever
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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I can understand where you are coming from (im not white either) but this holds for very few of the [white] people in Korea.
If you just read Daves you might be forgiven for thinking that every esl teacher is some uneducated disfunctional maniac: before coming to Korea, upon reading Daves it almost put be off totally.
Perhaps you had a bad experience or something but dont let it fool you into thinking that everyone is bad, whether they be white, Korean or whatever. |
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keysbottles
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Location: AnJung
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I have an in-law from Cuba. He made the statement that everyone should experience being a minority sometime in their life. I am, being white, getting that experience here in Korea. I hope this experience makes me a better person. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: When "No One" Is Looking: Whites Become More R |
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| Cognorati wrote: |
And when it comes to racism that Koreans direct at certain groups (blacks), they do not disagree but actually empathize: so whites working in Korea don't mind racism or racist privilege, they just think it should be directed at certain parties. In effect, they resent any loss of status that they experience, but believe others should be treated appropriately (i.e.: should be subject to racism as it is only natural).
This is all very good to know as I, a black person, interact with whites in Korea. |
Odd, I've found the exact opposite in my years of being here. That most "whites" I've been around have been appalled by the racism they encounter here (in Korea).
That being said, I think every nationality/ethnicity has the potential to be racist... it's not a "white only" thing. |
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Kenny Kimchee
Joined: 12 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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Just because the Nigerians are black and many (most?) of the people on here are white doesn't mean it's racism.
I'm white and:
- Back home, I didn't like going to bars filled with drunk rednecks because they'd kick my azz for no reason. I'm not anti-white - I just don't like rednecks.
- I don't like to go to bars filled with drunken English louts because they make a lot of noise and start trouble. I'm not anti-English - I just don't like drunk idiots
- I don't like to go to bars filled with drunken GIs because they start fights and make unwanted sexual advances on women. I'm not anti-black, anti-white, anti-youth, anti-military, or anti-American - I just don't like young, dumb, idiots full of booze.
- I don't like to go to clubs filled with Koreans and gyopos doing the pseudo-hiphop thing. I'm not anti-Korean or anti-hiphop - I just don't want to go to a bar where I'm not welcome.
- I don't like to go to clubs that have a bunch of Nigerians. I'm not racist - I just don't like to be around a bunch of guys making unwanted sexual advances on unsuspecting women.
See the pattern? |
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ldh2222
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| keysbottles wrote: |
| I have an in-law from Cuba. He made the statement that everyone should experience being a minority sometime in their life. I am, being white, getting that experience here in Korea. I hope this experience makes me a better person. |
I understand what you mean, but placing a white person in a foreign environment (i.e. Korea) doesn't equate to the same level racism that non-whites experience in the western world in particular. It's the white perception I feel the OP is referring to, which is not easily recognized by white people as a whole, unless something personally happens to that aforementioned person.
It's like those shows (not "shock-level" shows mind you), but the type where you get a make-over in which you change your physical appearance from a white person to a minority. Then you go out in public in your daily lifestyle (minus contacts who've known you previously of course) and experience life as a minority. Obviously it's inherently different as it's only a taste of that lifestyle, however, for the most part, it's usually a negative one. I just hope you can understand the underlying point, about perception. |
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Berghoff
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: When "No One" Is Looking: Whites Become More R |
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| Cognorati wrote: |
| I've noticed that without any external pressure or repercussions, and when certain people believe that a minority group is not present or able to influence, they become more racist: I think Korea allows working class and lower middle-class whites an opportunity to be more racist, to allow what they've been thinking to be aired publicly. |
How do you know that? What makes you think that's true? Wouldn't your presence at such an event make it unlikely that they would admit such things at all? And if you are present for such an event, put them in their place! Why sit back and listen?
This is my third time in Korea. I have yet to see it. As another poster stated, it's usually the opposite. The whitey white person is more apalled than anything.
| Cognorati wrote: |
| And when it comes to racism that Koreans direct at certain groups (blacks), they do not disagree but actually empathize: so whites working in Korea don't mind racism or racist privilege, they just think it should be directed at certain parties. In effect, they resent any loss of status that they experience, but believe others should be treated appropriately (i.e.: should be subject to racism as it is only natural). |
I understand why Koreans are racist against blacks, but I certainly do not empathize. Someone once explained that it comes from three sources: many black people in Korea are GIs, the image portrayed in hip-hop (gangster), and the image by American media (bad guys). It's wrong, but I understand the source. Having said that, I do not condone it.
Furthermore, what the hell kind of status do whites have in this country? "I want to learn Englishee, can I have cell phone number?" Status my ass. We're all just props, selling points for schools. Tools. It's not status.
I'm not saying that racist whites don't exist in this country. I have yet to meet one, but if we can grow them in the west, I'm sure they're bound to find their way to another corner of the world. Maybe you just need to meet less sucky white people. |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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I used to think that racism was something that white people had gotten rid of. It isn't. I think those who are shocked that some people don't like Nigerians need to get a grip on the world around you.
The world is racist. If you think for a minute those Nigerians aren't racist against whites, you are mistaken.
The thing is this: though the world is racist, we need to learn to TOLERATE those who are different from us.
If you want a viable 21st century example, look at the reaction of whites in USA/Canada/UK/Au/NZ to Muslims after 9/11. You think that kind of racism just "sprang" up because of terrorism? It was always there, it was just suppressed as toleration.
I honestly don't know what some of you expect: whites were racist for centuries. We started to wake up to the fact it isn't "right" after WWII. Still, it wasn't until the 1960-1970s that real changes started to occur. It will take generations to get rid of the racism that has been a cultural norm for so long.
Another case in point: the American south: White/Black relations. Slaves have been freed for over 100 years, and many white still aren't accepting of it. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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As a "black" man you might want to reconsider the world as being Black or White.
ESpecially using words like Black, white, yellow, brown or whatever.
Don't you think it is demeaning in itself? Aren't you being the racist here by implying that this kind of distinction is only natural?
Stop thinking in terms of races, I don't think of humans like we think of dogs. You know: Poodles, Labradors and any other kind of "race".
I am a racist, Humans before animals. |
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esetters21
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. Pink wrote: |
Another case in point: the American south: White/Black relations. Slaves have been freed for over 100 years, and many white still aren't accepting of it. |
It is always interesting when people bring this up. If you have some insight as to the southern U.S states being any different from the rest of the country in that respect, please enlighten me. I am from the South, and have travelled everywhere imaginable in the U.S, and people's opinions towards eachother (for better or worse) are quite the same. There are pockets of this type of activity throughout the country where groups hate on people of different ethnicities everyway. I hate to see when people generalize the South as being the stereotypical "us against them" thing. |
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12martians
Joined: 20 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: When "No One" Is Looking: Whites Become More R |
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| Cognorati wrote: |
After the reading the shocking racism of the "Nigerians are Bad..." thread, I have a theory about what happens in Korea, especially by the level of racism spouted by certain "racial" groups.
I've noticed that without any external pressure or repercussions, and when certain people believe that a minority group is not present or able to influence, they become more racist: I think Korea allows working class and lower middle-class whites an opportunity to be more racist, to allow what they've been thinking to be aired publicly.
It's seems that whites mind Korean racism when they are actually forced to experience what any non-white minority experiences in a Western country. However, if whites are the recipients of racist privilege, well then, they don't mind racism over here at all.
And when it comes to racism that Koreans direct at certain groups (blacks), they do not disagree but actually empathize: so whites working in Korea don't mind racism or racist privilege, they just think it should be directed at certain parties. In effect, they resent any loss of status that they experience, but believe others should be treated appropriately (i.e.: should be subject to racism as it is only natural).
This is all very good to know as I, a black person, interact with whites in Korea. |
Pure bullsh*t. I'm Korean and have reached out on many occassions to black people in my naive youth. Here are some of the experiences I've had.
1. Tried to make small talk with a black acquaintance only to be told "that's enough".
2. Had a black roommate who ended up not paying the rent and stealing my VCR.
3. Had another black roommate (yes, I was once very racially forgiving) who ended up not paying the rent.
4. Had countless hostile encounters with blacks who ALWAYS initiated the hostility.
Other incidents too numerous to recount.
Whites can't kill blacks and they can't enslave them. So, they do try make some peace with the descendents of slaves, as Karma dictates.
Asians owe blacks squat. And rightly regard them as burdens. And it is NOT a racist thing. Get that through your thick head. |
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Cognorati
Joined: 09 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| ldh2222 wrote: |
| keysbottles wrote: |
| I have an in-law from Cuba. He made the statement that everyone should experience being a minority sometime in their life. I am, being white, getting that experience here in Korea. I hope this experience makes me a better person. |
I understand what you mean, but placing a white person in a foreign environment (i.e. Korea) doesn't equate to the same level racism that non-whites experience in the western world in particular. It's the white perception I feel the OP is referring to, which is not easily recognized by white people as a whole, unless something personally happens to that aforementioned person.
It's like those shows (not "shock-level" shows mind you), but the type where you get a make-over in which you change your physical appearance from a white person to a minority. Then you go out in public in your daily lifestyle (minus contacts who've known you previously of course) and experience life as a minority. Obviously it's inherently different as it's only a taste of that lifestyle, however, for the most part, it's usually a negative one. I just hope you can understand the underlying point, about perception. |
Thank you for bringing this up -- whites do have a tendency to do something that I call "whitewashing": they have a way of dismissing the validity of peoples' perspectives by comparing their legitimacy to their own experiences, which is in of itself racist.
How can experiences be equivalent when a white person cannot POSSIBLY have the same experience as a non-white person -- even the makeup experiment isn't the same, because the makeup comes off.
To another poster, yes, white people most definetly have racist privilege here, and in the rest of the world: there is blatent hiring discrimination (with ads and recruiters blatently saying they will not hire non-whites), wage discrimination, housing discrimination, and racial harassement and discrimination in many forms in the workplace.
Let me put it to you like this: you don't see it because you're white, so you whitewash, and think that it must not exist because it doesn't pertain to you (the narcissism of this mentality is racist enough). |
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Kenny Kimchee
Joined: 12 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Cognorati wrote: |
whites do have a tendency to do something that I call "whitewashing": they have a way of dismissing the validity of peoples' perspectives by comparing their legitimacy to their own experiences, which is in of itself racist.
Let me put it to you like this: you don't see it because you're white, so you whitewash, and think that it must not exist because it doesn't pertain to you (the narcissism of this mentality is racist enough). |
Meaning...what? Subjective perception is racist? If whites unwittingly "whitewash" and aren't aware they're doing it, then are they being racist or just perceiving things from a subjective stance? Should they be held responsible for their racism, since they have no choice but to perceive things from their own frame of reference? And how the heck is narcissism racism? Where's Socrates when you need him? |
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Cognorati
Joined: 09 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Asians owe blacks squat. And rightly regard them as burdens. And it is NOT a racist thing. Get that through your thick head. |
This is a prototypical example of what I'm saying: here is Asian racism directed at black people, which mimicks white racism to a tee. I'm not sure whether since Koreans are racist they are just targetting their hatred at another group, or whether they mimick the racism of whites because it seems like the upwardly mobile, racist, capitalist, hierarchical thing to do.
By the way, I'm half Asian: how will my conduct be if I'm to be your friend, acquaintance, roomate, coworker, etc? What do you mean by blacks, who qualifies? How am I shaped by the fact that I am Black, according to your opinion?
Black people people come from every inhabited continent and every socio-economic subgroup imaginable (blacks are even marrying into European royal families), so how will you treat every black person you encounter?
Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa, and Nigerians come from a variety of subgroups. I've been close friends with Nigerian people, including in Itaewon, and have never experienced what (racist) whites and Asians say they have.
Could Nigerians and your former black acquaintances be responding to your own racism?
*Edit: I forgot to add another truly astounding racist implication of your post:
| Quote: |
| Whites can't kill blacks and they can't enslave them. So, they do try make some peace with the descendents of slaves, as Karma dictates. |
So because whites can't enslave or kill black people, which seem like implicitly acceptable options according to you, the only other option left is to make peace with them?
Wow. Because genocide and slavery are off the table, and because it was tried and failed, the only option left to try is to recognize their human rights and dignity?
You are sick. If you are Korean, and if your mentality is representative of Korean people, Koreans are truly the most morally bankrupt, genocidally racist people on the planet, and I have no sympathy for anything they've experienced. In fact, if what you are saying is typical of the Korean (racist)mentality, I wish they remained a colony of Japan: the Japanese would have been a civilizing influence.
Last edited by Cognorati on Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Cognorati
Joined: 09 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| If whites unwittingly "whitewash" and aren't aware they're doing it, then are they being racist or just perceiving things from a subjective stance? |
Let me answer one of your loaded questions.
Whites are not "unwittingly" doing it: they have been diminshing and invalidating the experiences of other people by hijacking a dialogue and dismissing peoples' perspective by reasserting the validity of their own (white)experience, and making an impossible and irrational comparison.
What this does is maintain a status quo and keeps white people in a position of power, where they determine what is legitimate and what even exists: their perspective is not subjective, it's a refutation of reality (ie, saying that you've never witnessed hiring discrimination and, ergo, it must not exist is objectively false, when there are ads in Korean papers that feature racist hiring policies, and expose about the problem).
Here is a comparison:
A woman says that she has experienced terrible pain due to complications during childbirth (maybe she has a laceration in her uterus due to certain labor inducing medications, or something), and she says it was the most horrific pain she's ever experienced in her life. She then goes on to say that she is shocked that the the doctors (male) would prescribe this medicine to women, knowing the risks.
Enter a man. He says that the pain couldn't have been that bad, and that he had a very bad break in his leg, in a car wreck, and he's sure it was just as painful, if not more. He then goes on to tell her that when the bone was set, it was extremely painful, but a necessity.
The man is dimininshing and invalidating an experience he can't possibly have: he is not in a position to say whether the pain in her uterus was intense or not, cause he doesn't FRIGGIN have one! |
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