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The debate about the dollar
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:57 pm    Post subject: The debate about the dollar Reply with quote

I think this video is an excellent debate about what is happening in the global economy. The two schools of thought are clearly and properly represented. I don't know who is right, though I lean towards Peter Schiff.

Is a cheap dollar good or bad for the American, and global, economy?

http://www.europac.net/Schiff-FBN-11-7-07_lg.asp

For a pessimistic take:

http://www.rgemonitor.com/blog/roubini/226072
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cbclark4



Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A strong dollar is good for Imports.

A weak dollar is good for Exports.

Or is it the other way around?
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A weak dollar is good for property and land owners in NYC, et al. Means, Europeans and Asians will be ready to buy your building. It's good for Microsoft. It's not going to change the price of its software it sells in Euros in Europe. Every time it earns a Euro in Europe, it's earning more.

I used to work for a software company in Toronto that mostly sold its software in the USA. More the Canadian dollar tanked, way better it was for our company.
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't it a touch more complicated than that?
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yawarakaijin



Joined: 08 Aug 2006

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I know that in Japan NO ONE seems to be complaining about the weak yen. It is very strange because I always imagine Japan was a country that imported a lot of good. I guess their profits on exported goods must outweigh the cost of importing.

Maybe someone could answer me this though. Canada is America's biggest trading partner. Where are all the economists complaing about losing a market which they use to be able to take advantage of? All those raw materials from Canada used to be purchased at bargain basement prices, I imagined there would be more than a few economist lamenting the turn around.

It is complicated though, those in the American foresty industry must be loving it, no longer having to compete with cheap Canadian softwood. This may lead to a boom in construction with American companies getting almost all the spoils of war.
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This dude figures a 40-50% decline in the American stock market is likely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_0pqHzK324&eurl=http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/
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keane



Joined: 09 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it is complicated. Were this a time when the dollar was simply weaker and other conditions were relatively normal, it wouldn't mean much except for specific industries/groups. That is not the case. We have a time when w are spending huge amounts on a needless war that will strain the economy for probably generations; when a weak economy will exacerbate our ability to ameliorate the effects of climate change; when the economy is being driven down by extreme food and energy costs; when personal resiliency to financial strain and other external problems is greatly weakened for the middle and lower classes due to losses of wealth (equity and value of assets held in dollars), etc., etc.

It ain't gonna be pretty no matter how you slice it. People are already losing homes, cars, going hungry, will be getting cold, etc. And that's just in the US. In a number areas of the world there are already fuel and energy supply problems, food shortages, etc. Not to mention wars...

EDIT: Wowser... one of those dudes just said we're at Peak Oil... Where's his tin hat? Wink
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cbclark4 wrote:
A strong dollar is good for Imports.

A weak dollar is good for Exports.

Or is it the other way around?


You got it right. That's why the central banks of Japan, Korea, and China intervene and buy up dollars. Helps their economies.

The Japanese Yen is undervalued a fair amount. Not sure about the won or the RMB.

Weak dollar sucks for any Americans traveling and as you noted, our imports, but besides that, not so bad. Helps our balance of payments.

In regards to the stock market, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if it hits a rough patch soon. The economist keeps on saying financial companies and banks are more vulnerable to the fall out from sub-prime mortages than people are willing to admit right now. While I realize the economist isn't perfect, it is pretty accurate.
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Tiger Beer



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

keane wrote:
It ain't gonna be pretty no matter how you slice it. People are already losing homes, cars, going hungry, will be getting cold, etc. And that's just in the US. In a number areas of the world there are already fuel and energy supply problems, food shortages, etc. Not to mention wars...

I just seriously hope the US goverment doesn't pour tons of financial aid money into the homeowners market. Not saying they don't have serious problems, its just those low interest rates and all those shadey encouraged financial systems that were allowed to exist and occur in the first place is what made the market so messed up and inflated.

It needs to properly readjust itself so that people's incomes are on par with the value of housing comparitively. Either that, or the U.S. coasts will just only be allowed for rich land-owners and never again be accessable to the general public.
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That (low = exports, high = imports) is the most simplistic understanding of the debate possible.

Leaving aside that a country cannot go from a 70% based consumption economy to a 70% production economy without the same kind of pain that happened with de-industrialization, the greenback losing the "global reserve currency" status has massive implications for the United States.
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huffdaddy



Joined: 25 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:

The Japanese Yen is undervalued a fair amount. Not sure about the won or the RMB.


The RMB is seriously undervalued. Jim Rogers moved all of his assets into yuan.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/10/24/business/sxasia.php
Quote:
The Chinese currency, known as the renminbi, or yuan, is "the best currency to buy right now," Rogers said. "I don't see how one can really lose on the renminbi in the next decade or so. It's gotta go. It's gotta triple. It's gotta quadruple."


Quote:
The carry trades in yen and francs will "unwind someday," which will send the currencies "straight up," Rogers said. "I'm buying the yen."
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thepeel wrote:
Leaving aside that a country cannot go from a 70% based consumption economy to a 70% production economy


Who says it has to do that?
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

huffdaddy wrote:
bucheon bum wrote:

The Japanese Yen is undervalued a fair amount. Not sure about the won or the RMB.


The RMB is seriously undervalued. Jim Rogers moved all of his assets into yuan.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/10/24/business/sxasia.php
Quote:
The Chinese currency, known as the renminbi, or yuan, is "the best currency to buy right now," Rogers said. "I don't see how one can really lose on the renminbi in the next decade or so. It's gotta go. It's gotta triple. It's gotta quadruple."


Quote:
The carry trades in yen and francs will "unwind someday," which will send the currencies "straight up," Rogers said. "I'm buying the yen."


Jim Rogers did not move "all" his assets into yuan. He moved the vast majority out of USD $ assets. The extent to which he is legally permitted to enter the Chinese market he has, and he is also heavily exposed in the Canadian, Oz, Swiss currencies.

He is way to rosy about China.
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mindmetoo wrote:
thepeel wrote:
Leaving aside that a country cannot go from a 70% based consumption economy to a 70% production economy


Who says it has to do that?


Likely it won't be a total reversal, admittedly. But there will be a large transformation. It will be quite painful on the lowest of the low socio-economic classes. The dollar isn't just going to "go down" but it going to likely darn near collapse. The immediate decline in the standard of living will be very sharp.

Stratfor's daily podcast Friday was about this and quite good.
https://www.stratfor.com/reports/podcasts.php?#form
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huffdaddy



Joined: 25 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thepeel wrote:

Jim Rogers did not move "all" his assets into yuan. He moved the vast majority out of USD $ assets. The extent to which he is legally permitted to enter the Chinese market he has, and he is also heavily exposed in the Canadian, Oz, Swiss currencies.


Okay, correction noted.

Quote:
He is way to rosy about China.


I'd tend to agree. Especially with the currency controls still in place. Even at the current pace, it'll take a great while for the yuan to double or triple in value. It's only moved about 10% in the two years since it was allowed to drift down.
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