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Dome Vans
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 Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Dome Vans wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
Oh, PETA propaganda. Never seen that before. And would never have expected you to seek confirmation of your worldviews there, Dome Head.
Thanks.  |
Regardless of PETA, Gopher darling, are you dispelling science again? What was it again cooking or boiling? |
Science? That website? Usually I regard CREDIBLE science reports as those published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal...not a partisan website. |
Hot damn! I think we've found Gopher's sock or is Gopher the sock of TUM.
| Quote: |
Researchers believe the best way to minimize the lobster's movement time is to chill/ice it before dropping it in water that has come to a rolling boil. Hypnotizing, slow heating, and steaming increase the length and duration of activity during cooking. |
http://www.lobsterinstitute.org/index.php?page=22
Maybe you should try a little experiment at home and get yourself a stop watch and glass casserole dish. You don't need a peer reviewed journal for that. There's plenty more proof. It's not like the cycle of black hole. Gopher's lack of science knowledge seems to be linked with his inability to understand "cooking" slowly and "boiling" slowly. There is a difference, shame he doesn't realise it. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| Dome Vans wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Dome Vans wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
Oh, PETA propaganda. Never seen that before. And would never have expected you to seek confirmation of your worldviews there, Dome Head.
Thanks. |
Regardless of PETA, Gopher darling, are you dispelling science again? What was it again cooking or boiling? |
Science? That website? Usually I regard CREDIBLE science reports as those published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal...not a partisan website. |
Hot damn! I think we've found Gopher's sock or is Gopher the sock of TUM.
[. |
Nice try, but Gopher and I are two different people. The mods or anyone else are more than welcome to check my IP address at any time and compare it with Gopher.
Also for more in that regard check out Gopher's and my stance on the past lumber dispute (settled now) between Canada and the U.S. If Gopher were indeed my sock that's the strangest use of a sock I've ever seen.
I was replying to the "science" part of your quote, and didn't want to take it out of context. |
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Troll_Bait
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| the_beaver wrote: |
| And as to the topic at hand, anthropomorphizing seems to be the main reason to believe that lobsters feel pain. With a mash of ganglia operating as a brain they are pretty much guaranteed to be act/react critters, not underwater philosophers. |
| The article in the Original Post wrote: |
| Prof Elwood says that sensing pain is crucial even for the most lowly of animals because it allows them to change their behaviour after damaging experiences and so increase their chances of survival. |
Lobsters may not be able to describle "throbbing pain" or "slicing pain" or the sweet-yet-excruciating pain of unrequited love. However, pain is basically your body telling you that it is being damaged, so you should either escape or stop doing what you're doing. Since even simple creatures can benefit from damage-avoidance, it's not at all surprising that even lobsters may feel pain.
"Doctor, my eye hurts everytime I drink coffee.
"Take the spoon out of the cup."
*snare drum*
*cymbal* |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Troll_Bait wrote: |
| Lobsters may not be able to describle "throbbing pain" or "slicing pain" or the sweet-yet-excruciating pain of unrequited love. However, pain is basically your body telling you that it is being damaged, so you should either escape or stop doing what you're doing. Since even simple creatures can benefit from damage-avoidance, it's not at all surprising that even lobsters may feel pain. |
It's not surprising that they have a mechanism which makes them react to stimulus. |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| the_beaver wrote: |
| Troll_Bait wrote: |
| Lobsters may not be able to describle "throbbing pain" or "slicing pain" or the sweet-yet-excruciating pain of unrequited love. However, pain is basically your body telling you that it is being damaged, so you should either escape or stop doing what you're doing. Since even simple creatures can benefit from damage-avoidance, it's not at all surprising that even lobsters may feel pain. |
It's not surprising that they have a mechanism which makes them react to stimulus. |
And this is different from our "mechanism" in what way? |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Bramble wrote: |
| And this is different from our "mechanism" in what way? |
Degree and intensity. |
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Troll_Bait
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| the_beaver wrote: |
| Bramble wrote: |
| And this is different from our "mechanism" in what way? |
Degree and intensity. |
First of all, in this context, aren't these two words synonyms?
Second, how do you measure the degree/intensity of pain? Even human studies of pain rely largely on interviews. Will you ask the lobsters, "On a scale of one to ten, with one being a mild ache, and ten being excruciating agony, how would you rate this boiling water?" |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Troll_Bait wrote: |
| the_beaver wrote: |
| Bramble wrote: |
| And this is different from our "mechanism" in what way? |
Degree and intensity. |
First of all, in this context, aren't these two words synonyms?
Second, how do you measure the degree/intensity of pain? Even human studies of pain rely largely on interviews. Will you ask the lobsters, "On a scale of one to ten, with one being a mild ache, and ten being excruciating agony, how would you rate this boiling water?" |
It's like this.
You hear a sudden noise buzzing around your ear and you react by ducking and looking -- no pain involved.
You walk into the sunlight and you react by squinting -- no pain involved.
You put your hand on some fuzzy at nighttime and, as this fuzzy thing does not belong to you and you went to bed alone, you react by swearing and swinging your hand away -- no pain involved.
You let rip with a juicy seam splitter and the aroma makes your girlfriend's eyes water and she covers her nose and leaves the room -- no pain involved.
Yes, lobsters react, but with such a limited excuse for a brain they can't feel pain such as we do anymore than they can fart like my uncle Hal. |
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