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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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kotakji
Joined: 23 Oct 2006
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 Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| komerican wrote: |
[/b] The west, particularly, the US, has a comparative advantage only at the graduate school level because the DoD or US department of defense spends vasts sums of money for research.
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Thats a gross oversimplification, while DoD does invest alot in research, US universities get even greater benefits from the NiH, NSF, absolutely astounding alumni and corporate donations, and direct corporate investments. Guess where the research for Samsungs cutting edge semi-conductors is being done. |
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Optimus Prime
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:20 am Post subject: |
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I want to start a magazine: 1000 top Universities in the world and re-release rankings each month like FIFA wrold football rankings. Of course I expect to get rich solely from Korean Universities sending in white envelopes to get higher on the list. This will be the magazine's only source of revenue.
Why do Koreans care so much about lists? I thought paranoid speed freaks and coke addicts were the ones who constantly obsessed with making lists. |
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mercury
Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Location: Pusan
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
komerican:
Please tell us what your major was and what university deigned to graduate you. Your posts indicate Science isn't your field. The same can be said of Logic and English. |
best post of the century 
almost choked on my coffee~ |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:44 am Post subject: |
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Any survey which puts five British universities ahead of the likes of Stanford and MIT is a joke.
Great avatar, though, OP. |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:02 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
Any survey which puts five British universities ahead of the likes of Stanford and MIT is a joke.
Great avatar, though, OP. |
This is a better list, Steve (even though my university fares worse). |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:22 am Post subject: |
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Indeed, thanks for the link.
SNU fares much better (#32) here (where the ranking methodology was 'the number of alumni holding a CEO position in one of the 500 leading worldwide companies').
Korea has 2 universities in the top 88, half as many as Canada. |
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komerican
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| jaganath69 wrote: |
| komerican wrote: |
Koreans should ingnore these lists. Most undergraduate education is similar all over the developed world. The west, particularly, the US, has a comparative advantage only at the graduate school level because the DoD or US department of defense spends vasts sums of money for research.
So it makes sense to go to the west ONLY for grad school and not for undergrad, which as I say is quite similar. Much of the rational for these lists is basically marketing by universities.
Koreans should just go to korean universities and then go to grad school in the west. If you look at the executive line up of 1st tier korean companies all of them graduated from Korean undergrad universities and then got advanced degrees at western grad schools. |
More apologia from someone who refuses to acknowledge even Korea's greatest shortcoming. Education, particularly in the tertiary sector, here is a joke with academic tenure being akin to a medieval guild and the fear of competition from overseas academics palpable. Let's not even get into the question of rampant plagiarism, cheating and fraud for which your ilk are exposed disproportionally when studying abroad. |
Nothing you wrote controverts the points I made. For a Korean to be successful it's better to go to a Korean university and then go to grad school overseas-mostly the US or Europe. I gave as an example, the executives at Samsung who mostly come from a Korean educational background with only some having advanced masters or doctorate degrees overseas. All you did was engage in emotional name-calling.
| Troll_Bait wrote: |
| komerican wrote: |
Koreans should ingnore these lists. Most undergraduate education is similar all over the developed world. The west, particularly, the US, has a comparative advantage only at the graduate school level because the DoD or US department of defense spends vasts sums of money for research.
So it makes sense to go to the west ONLY for grad school and not for undergrad, which as I say is quite similar. Much of the rational for these lists is basically marketing by universities.
Koreans should just go to korean universities and then go to grad school in the west. If you look at the executive line up of 1st tier korean companies all of them graduated from Korean undergrad universities and then got advanced degrees at western grad schools. |
I graduated from a Canadian university and now teach at a Korean one. It is very different. At Korean universities, you can only fail through poor attendance (being absent many times). And even if you do fail, you can take the course again, and your old "F" is erased from your record as if it never existed. I could go on (not doing homework, sleeping in class, plagiarism, etc.). There are a fair number of posters here at Dave's who also teach at Korean universities, and they will all tell you the same.
You are talking out of your ass. Putting your bullschit in bold doesn't make any more true.
Listen up, Kyopo. Until you come and live in Korea, have a nice long drink of STFU, because you don't know what you're talking about. |
Why so emotional? Look, I worked as a lecturer at a Korean university also and I've worked with tons of Korean university students. I've worked in government and in the private sector for many years--I'm sure for more years than you have.
| mercury wrote: |
| Kunis are sort of like elementary schools. The students go and study, play and run, have snack time and eat at the local dunkin doughnuts and sip lattes while girls and guys chase each other around the student cafeteria like teletobies. They cheat, and cheat, and do group work, and copy, and turn in their 'reports'. I had a student turn in a report in FRENCH once, I started speaking to him in French (since he must have been so fluent) and soon he realized his mistake. I was always bombarded with gifts, the lotte 100,000 won certificates, the bottles of booze, the candy, the 'hospital' certificats for absences, watched as the students brought booze and other gifts to the kprofs down the hall. Seemed like a circus. And the money kept flowing into the uni, and fat cats got rich, and then the pieces of paper were given out, and then the soju parties started all over again. |
So what? In the west rich kids buy their way into universities. How do you think Bush got into grad school or the presidency for that matter? And if you think American corporations haven't gotten into interfering in university management then you're living in a fantasy world.
| CentralCali wrote: |
komerican:
Please tell us what your major was and what university deigned to graduate you. Your posts indicate Science isn't your field. The same can be said of Logic and English. |
why don't you try to debate the points instead of engaging in cheap shots at me? What was illogical about my post?
| kotakji wrote: |
| komerican wrote: |
[/b] The west, particularly, the US, has a comparative advantage only at the graduate school level because the DoD or US department of defense spends vasts sums of money for research.
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Thats a gross oversimplification, while DoD does invest alot in research, US universities get even greater benefits from the NiH, NSF, absolutely astounding alumni and corporate donations, and direct corporate investments. Guess where the research for Samsungs cutting edge semi-conductors is being done. |
Finally, someone addresses one of the points I made. I think you're making my point though. All those dollars whether from government or from the private sector end up at the graduate level. At the undergraduate level you have many first and second year science courses with hundred of people in one class. With that sort of teacher/student ratio there's no difference between a student taking a entry level course in Korea or at a US univ.
A university may advertise that it has a famous Nobel laureate but an undergrad student will never meet him. He�s just a tout for the university while grad students teach his class.
At the individual level, it's clear that academics alone will not bring you success. Networking and becoming acculturated into Korean culture are just as important, if not more.
At the national level, it's clear that while quality universities are important there are many other factors that determine economic growth. Korea, even with the rankings of its universities, still does a fine job in research and contrary to the members of this board, its secondary education system is the envy of many developing countries. |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:48 am Post subject: |
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So Kormerican, as well as refusing to remove the mote from his own eye, concedes that success is best achieved through stealing the intellectual property of others and kicking up to the profs like a mobster would to the don. There is no point refuting your argument since you have simply posited that the stinking morass that is Korean tertiary education serves the self interest of students here, regardless of the fact that it encourages the litany of sins outlined by myself and other posters.
So much for your sig as well, it is redolent of the same kind of intellectual deception you come here to engage in, in order to practice boosterism for your 'homeland' (are you Korean or American, btw?). Last time I checked Switzerland did not count amongst states whose nationals qualified for an E2, so at best you are using a tu quoque fallacy to deflect the fact that your 'homeland' is a bastion of racist practices. All the more ironic when you are someone who has benefited from the open immigration policies of a western state (see, I can use a tu quoque too!) |
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komerican
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| jaganath69 wrote: |
| So Kormerican, as well as refusing to remove the mote from his own eye, concedes that success is best achieved through stealing the intellectual property of others and kicking up to the profs like a mobster would to the don. There is no point refuting your argument since you have simply posited that the stinking morass that is Korean tertiary education serves the self interest of students here, regardless of the fact that it encourages the litany of sins outlined by myself and other posters. |
sure there are problems with the education system here but there are problems everywhere. You're being melodramatic. You're basically calling every graduate from a korean school a "mobster". That's silly. As for stealing the intellectual property of others keep in mind that all countries "steal" intellectual property. As I noted on another thread, America stole intellectual property from britain and europe for decades in order to jump start its own industrial revolution.
| Quote: |
| So much for your sig as well, it is redolent of the same kind of intellectual deception you come here to engage in, in order to practice boosterism for your 'homeland' (are you Korean or American, btw?). |
nonsense. I just have a different opinon from you. Reading this board you'll find much more "boosterism" of the West than I do of korea.
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| Last time I checked Switzerland did not count amongst states whose nationals qualified for an E2, so at best you are using a tu quoque fallacy to deflect the fact that your 'homeland' is a bastion of racist practices. |
I just find it ironic that with all the talk of koreans it's a western political party that has officially made it a part of its party plank to target foreigners as criminals. You're being overly melodramatic with the "bastion of racist practices". Historically, there have been few foreigners in korea so how can we have these established practices? Look at Troll Bait's signature. That's just a cartoon. My cartoon was produced by a legitimate polical party in a western government. Chew on that fact for a while.
| Quote: |
| All the more ironic when you are someone who has benefited from the open immigration policies of a western state (see, I can use a tu quoque too!) |
actually, the west benefitted just as much since they got some highly skilled people-my parents. Korea on the other hand lost the services of those same people. |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| I just find it ironic that with all the talk of Koreans it's a western political party that has officially made it a part of its party plank to target foreigners as criminals. |
This is where the entire argument you are trying to make falls down. Western by no means implies homogeneous, despite the fact you'd like to think we all eat burgers and listen to David Hasslehof. Nice try, but you'd agree if I used China as an example to beat on Korea that it would be just as long of a stretch, right? |
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Passions
Joined: 31 May 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't get how Koreans study so much down to the elementary kids who goto cram school, police escorts for entrance exams, sleeping in libraries, etc. Yet, their universities rank so low in the world. How is it possible? |
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The_Eyeball_Kid
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
Any survey which puts five British universities ahead of the likes of Stanford and MIT is a joke.
Great avatar, though, OP. |
Why is it? |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Eyeball_Kid wrote: |
| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
Any survey which puts five British universities ahead of the likes of Stanford and MIT is a joke.
Great avatar, though, OP. |
Why is it? |
Yeah, I want to know why too. American universities are generally amongst the best, granted, but it doesn't naturally follow that another couldn't be better. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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What cheap shot, komerican? You have already been shown that your assertion that the academic standing of universities in the United States is due to Department of Defense funding is not a fact; it is something you made up or simply repeated because you like the sound of it. Had you a basic grasp of Science or Logic, you would realize that making up stuff or repeating stuff without basis is neither scientific nor logical.
The comment about your English skills is simply an aside since I find it amusing, in a sad way, that you can't parse either what you read or what you write very well in English yet you presumably are teaching said language. |
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Milwaukiedave
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Goseong
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Eyeball_Kid wrote: |
| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
Any survey which puts five British universities ahead of the likes of Stanford and MIT is a joke.
Great avatar, though, OP. |
Why is it? |
Please don't feed the trolls. |
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