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Don Calliente
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Location: SEOUL
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 Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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AJGEDDES wrote
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| The thread is about whether or not someone expecting English is the same as Korean. It isn't. |
No it's not. the thread asks if it's absurd to walk into Korean businesses etc and expect them to speak English.
Secondly, you made a simplistic statement to the effect that it is reasonable to travel other countries and expect people to know English as it is the 'international language.'
You are right in that there is this expectation amongst native English Speakers and People with English as their second language, with Kiwiliz being a prime example in a not so good way.
What I and others have been trying to point out is - that outside of the tourist industry (here your argument holds up) this expectation is unreasonable, unrealistic and somewhat arrogant / presumptuous.
Several of us have also noted that in our experience of travelling to various Non Native English speaking countries - outside of the tourist industry and even sometimes within it - it is an unfounded expectation for many reasons (amongst them being pride, having no interest in the language, poor tutoring in the language and just having more on your plate like running a business and a familly and having no time to learn English.) You seem to ignore these points even though I and Greek Buddha at least from my memory have provided first hand illustrations.
So yes, the expectation is there (for native English speakers and some ESL'ers) but the ability and desire is often not there (when it comes to non native English speakers in their own countries.)
And btw I agree with Venus somewhat that there's no need for the flaming when people don't agree with you, although your flaming is mild, there is still no need for it and it does you no credit. Perhaps (as can be seen in my earlier posts in this thread) I'm just fed up with posters on here who can't debate well resulting to insults...
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jinks
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Location: Formerly: Lower North Island
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| kiwiliz wrote: |
| kreitler7 wrote: |
I also get mad at other foreigners who don't bother speaking Korean. They just seem to exude an arrogance and apathetic attitude that turns me off.Even though English is international, Koreans are very proud. So, at least make an effort. |
I am not here to learn Korean. I was hired and brought to this country to teach English.
I do hope Korea does not become like France where most people can speak English but refuse to.
There are jobs now in Thailand you cannot get if you don't have English, it is becoming that important, I think many would like to be able to practise. Korea has decided, and did so many years ago...tht learning English was important, which is why its compulsory. So no, I do not think its too much to expect that some people in a shop would be able to answer basic questions in English. |
Liz, there are jobs in New Zealand now that you cannot get if you don't have Maori, as well as jobs in Canada that you cannot get if you don't have French. So, what's your point?
Why not return the courtesy; if is do-able for shop workers to speak some basic English, it must surely be possible for shoppers in foreign countries to pick up a little bit of the local language. |
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ajgeddes
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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Don Calliente, reread through the thread and you will see that you were the first one to start the flaming, and it was towards kiwiliz.
Second of all, as you may be tired of it, I am tired of people coming on here trying to draw parallels that aren't even close to the issue, hence calling out Greek Buddha's analogy.
You will also see that during this thread, I have already agreed it is a little ridiculous to expect people to speak English everywhere you go, but that it is not equal to Korean when it comes to expectations. I agree that if a foreigner lives here they should learn the language, but not every foreigner that comes here lives here. I don't know, I guess I just see it differently, but I don't think it is equal to expect a little English in a country that spends millions (billions?) on learning English, and to expect a little Korea in a country that probably thinks Korea is in China. I also didn't say I agreed with it, but that's the reality.
Hopefully, this thread just dies because obviously nobody is going to change their minds and it isn't going anywhere. |
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venus
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Location: Near Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| jinks wrote: |
| kiwiliz wrote: |
| kreitler7 wrote: |
I also get mad at other foreigners who don't bother speaking Korean. They just seem to exude an arrogance and apathetic attitude that turns me off.Even though English is international, Koreans are very proud. So, at least make an effort. |
I am not here to learn Korean. I was hired and brought to this country to teach English.
I do hope Korea does not become like France where most people can speak English but refuse to.
There are jobs now in Thailand you cannot get if you don't have English, it is becoming that important, I think many would like to be able to practise. Korea has decided, and did so many years ago...tht learning English was important, which is why its compulsory. So no, I do not think its too much to expect that some people in a shop would be able to answer basic questions in English. |
Liz, there are jobs in New Zealand now that you cannot get if you don't have Maori, as well as jobs in Canada that you cannot get if you don't have French. So, what's your point?
Why not return the courtesy; if is do-able for shop workers to speak some basic English, it must surely be possible for shoppers in foreign countries to pick up a little bit of the local language. |
Phew, more voices of common sense echoing through the darkness. |
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