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Sorry, you're too young to work here.
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htrain



Joined: 24 May 2007

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:29 pm    Post subject: Sorry, you're too young to work here. Reply with quote

"Sorry, you're too young to work here. You can come back and apply again when you have a fat gut and a beard." It seems to be a common response I get when applying to universities.

I'm 25 with an MS, BA, AA, all in business and foreign language. I've taught university for a year in China at a well-known school. I was the foreign language program manager in my office in the military for 3 years. I've lived in Asia since I was 19.

I'm not bragging about my resume, but come on.. shouldn't I be able to get a 2.2mil won a month university job in Korea? I've heard this same thing 3 times in a row now "Oh sorry you're too young and the Korean professors say no."

To me this has nothing to do with experience, but is a way of saying "Hey this guy is liable to be turning some young Korean girls out."

My resume and everything is very professional, my picture is of myself smiling and in a suit, etc. I have recommendation letters from 3 PhDs and included a 25 page paper I wrote in my last year of grad school on the ESL industry in China.

This really makes me frustrated. Is it discrimination, or do you believe this is a legitimate reason to deny an applicant and I'm being a whiner?
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Bibbitybop



Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a logical, civilized world, age isn't important. Credentials are, and you have them.

But in Korea, anything goes and you are probably better off not working with those old, ageist goats.
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Nemo



Joined: 28 May 2006

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Sorry, you're too young to work here. Reply with quote

htrain wrote:
To me this has nothing to do with experience, but is a way of saying "Hey this guy is liable to be turning some young Korean girls out."


I would imagine they would be worried about you turning them on, not out.

Despite your good credentials, (although not remarkable or extraordinary -- yes, I've seen better (with no AA)) you probably need a couple more years experience. I've heard that you only need a heartbeat to work at a Chinese university.

Maybe it's your attitude, not your age?
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htrain



Joined: 24 May 2007

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Sorry, you're too young to work here. Reply with quote

Nemo wrote:
htrain wrote:
To me this has nothing to do with experience, but is a way of saying "Hey this guy is liable to be turning some young Korean girls out."


I would imagine they would be worried about you turning them on, not out.

Despite your good credentials, (although not remarkable or extraordinary -- yes, I've seen better (with no AA)) you probably need a couple more years experience. I've heard that you only need a heartbeat to work at a Chinese university.

Maybe it's your attitude, not your age?


I'm not saying at 25 years old I'm some hotshot or ready to take on the ESL world, but come on... It's a 2.2 mil won a year job in Korea. I've met guys teaching uni here that walk around with their backpack guitar cases, wearing wrinkly shirts with food stains, and look confused all the time.... but they are OLDER than me! That is very valid; I'm sure the students will respect them a lot more due to that age difference. It has nothing to do with REFERENT power... that's Western thinking.

Yes, you are right. You only need a heartbeat to work in a bad Chinese university.

If they got my attitude through reading my resume, they're awesome. That whole age thing was a great excuse when a simple "We found someone more qualified" would have sufficed.
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htrain



Joined: 24 May 2007

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Sorry, you're too young to work here. Reply with quote

Quote:
I would imagine they would be worried about you turning them on, not out.


"turn out" -
To give someone their first orgasm, or first good sexual encounter.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=turn+out[/quote]
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ella



Joined: 17 Apr 2006

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's Korea. You're not Korean. What seems to make sense to you as an outsider frankly doesn't matter. When you have trouble understanding and accepting that, that is your youth showing, my friend.
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htrain



Joined: 24 May 2007

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ella wrote:
It's Korea. You're not Korean. What seems to make sense to you as an outsider frankly doesn't matter. When you have trouble understanding and accepting that, that is your youth showing, my friend.

Understood.
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makemischief



Joined: 04 Nov 2005
Location: Traveling

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't vouch for the circumstances in your case (as some unis most certainly do discriminate on age)- but I have a number of friends who are 25 and currently working at unis and unigwons (which at 2.2 is more likely what you are talking about).

I started at 26 myself.

Shop around- not all care about age. Cheers and good luck.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's kind of comforting that people at the other end of the age range get screwed over, too. I already had 6 years experience in the classroom when the OP was born and I'm unqualified for 95% of the jobs in Korea because I'm too old.

But I do in fact sympathize with the OP. It sucks when your qualifications are trumped by something like age.
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The Perfect Cup of Coffee



Joined: 17 Jun 2007

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest though, some of the uni students are guys who've already finished their service and they may be around the same age as you. Could make for a weird classroom vibe. Seen it with my co-worker who got parachuted into the job from up on high. Only 26 herself, and most of the senior students didn't give her the same respect as they did the other teachers who were all 30+.
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htrain



Joined: 24 May 2007

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Perfect Cup of Coffee wrote:
To be honest though, some of the uni students are guys who've already finished their service and they may be around the same age as you. Could make for a weird classroom vibe. Seen it with my co-worker who got parachuted into the job from up on high. Only 26 herself, and most of the senior students didn't give her the same respect as they did the other teachers who were all 30+.

This is a very valid point. It's not the same as where I'm from and I know that. I shouldn't try to apply the same rules because they don't apply. I am not yet used to the hierarchical age structure yet.

On Saturday one of my students (who works for Samsung) asked me "If I'm working with a foreigner and he needs to work harder, i can say 'You MUST do this, NOW!' and it is ok, because Americans are straight forward, right?" I said actually in some places that's a great way to ensure you get shot in the parking lot.

No participative management, no referent power, no respect for opinion or idea outside the realm of age or title. Not knocking it, just calling a spade a spade. Why should I think the structure of higher education should be any different?
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IlIlNine



Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Location: Gunpo, Gyonggi, SoKo

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would a university in you home country hire you as a professor if you had adequate qualifications but were only 25? Probably not.
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htrain



Joined: 24 May 2007

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for everyone's comments and opinions. I've come to terms with things and have established some long term goals. Over the next 5-10 years I'm going to focus on getting fatter, growing a beard, and getting older. I know it's going to be a tough road to travel, but it's best for my career. It will take a lot of dedication, but at the end of the tunnel I see that sparking 2.2 mil a month just waiting for me. It will all be worth it in the end! Wish me luck!
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Tony_Balony



Joined: 12 Apr 2007

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should start smoking too as smoking causes premature aging.
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htrain



Joined: 24 May 2007

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IlIlNine wrote:
Would a university in you home country hire you as a professor if you had adequate qualifications but were only 25? Probably not.

Would a university in your home country hire 95% of the professors here? Probably not.

Would a university in your home country pay 2.2 mil won a month? Probably not.
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