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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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 Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| thepeel wrote: |
| Case Iran is dem der terrirsts. They wanna come over here and kill honest, hardworking Americans. USA!USA!USA! |
false flag?
or just baseless threats? |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think you need to blow stuff up to get the citizens of any country to support a war. You just need to press a hard us/them dichotomy and establish a large narrative like freedom, democracy, racial purity, or economic threat and the sheeple will eat it up like candy.
Most people have a religion. It isn't hard to get humans to believe total nonsense. |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| thepeel wrote: |
I don't think you need to blow stuff up to get the citizens of any country to support a war. You just need to press a hard us/them dichotomy and establish a large narrative like freedom, democracy, racial purity, or economic threat and the sheeple will eat it up like candy.
Most people have a religion. It isn't hard to get humans to believe total nonsense. |
that may work once (Iraq), but do you really think it is enough to work again? |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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Of course. Any opposition becomes "terrorists" and "anti-American" and is then marginalized. The media will not report on the massive anti-war demonstrations, just like last time, and instead will play pretend and show government news conferences as if they are actually "news". I don't think it is going to happen, but getting 60-65% of the people to support bombing the hell out of Iran wouldn't hardly be difficult.
Again, this isn't an American specific thing. At all. Humans, when told by an authority that "X" is true, will 99% of the time believe it without question. We fall in line. Look around you dude. We are surrounded in lies widely accepted as truth. Dogma and platitudes drive our species and give us meaning. Canada is hardly immune either. Peace keeping, multiculturalism, compassionate etc etc. These are all lies. The vast majority of people just listen-repeat-listen-repeat. |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| thepeel wrote: |
Of course. Any opposition becomes "terrorists" and "anti-American" and is then marginalized. The media will not report on the massive anti-war demonstrations, just like last time, and instead will play pretend and show government news conferences as if they are actually "news". I don't think it is going to happen, but getting 60-65% of the people to support bombing the hell out of Iran wouldn't hardly be difficult.
Again, this isn't an American specific thing. At all. Humans, when told by an authority that "X" is true, will 99% of the time believe it without question. We fall in line. Look around you dude. We are surrounded in lies widely accepted as truth. Dogma and platitudes drive our species and give us meaning. Canada is hardly immune either. Peace keeping, multiculturalism, compassionate etc etc. These are all lies. The vast majority of people just listen-repeat-listen-repeat. |
so why the need for false flags if the government's words are enough to cause panic?
there are plenty of false flag operations throughout history. why the need? |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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False flag means staged violence blamed on the 'other'?
I suppose it is very useful. Maybe it is the lazy government's way. I do not believe it is necessary. The way that media effects us and the extent to which media is in the pocket of power is likely enough. Hey, you can even call all dissent "far left" and discredit them. Right?
What are the examples of a FF event? |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| loose_ends wrote: |
| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
For the neocons and the hawks, it doesn't really seem to be about nukes at all, does it.
Bush was briefed on the NIE last week, yet he said Iran's nuclear programs are risking World War III.
So if Iran has really stopped its weapons development plans, what do the neocons hope to accomplish by continuing to push it?
A possible answer: Iran is the last independent nation in the Middle East. All the rest have been somehow conquered, pacified or domesticated. Or are too small to matter. If the US invades Iran, the conquest of the Middle East will be complete. |
so the question remains,
how do the neocons justify a war with iran now? |
They don't. |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| thepeel wrote: |
False flag means staged violence blamed on the 'other'?
I suppose it is very useful. Maybe it is the lazy government's way. I do not believe it is necessary. The way that media effects us and the extent to which media is in the pocket of power is likely enough. Hey, you can even call all dissent "far left" and discredit them. Right?
What are the examples of a FF event? |
do a wikipedia search of false flag operations. There are various FF events that have been exposed. |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Pluto wrote: |
| loose_ends wrote: |
| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
For the neocons and the hawks, it doesn't really seem to be about nukes at all, does it.
Bush was briefed on the NIE last week, yet he said Iran's nuclear programs are risking World War III.
So if Iran has really stopped its weapons development plans, what do the neocons hope to accomplish by continuing to push it?
A possible answer: Iran is the last independent nation in the Middle East. All the rest have been somehow conquered, pacified or domesticated. Or are too small to matter. If the US invades Iran, the conquest of the Middle East will be complete. |
so the question remains,
how do the neocons justify a war with iran now? |
They don't. |
they don't justify it and thus don't do it?
or they do it without justification? |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| The ideas of the 'neo-cons' have been largely discredited. Americans have little appetite for more military adventurism. The case for war against Iran was lost before it was even conceived. |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Pluto wrote: |
| The ideas of the 'neo-cons' have been largely discredited. Americans have little appetite for more military adventurism. The case for war against Iran was lost before it was even conceived. |
I agree with you.
However, do the neocons agree with most of America?
Are the neocons being held accountable for past actions?
And aren't neocon policies still a driving force in American foreign relations?
And finally,
is the neocon agenda the only agenda responsible? |
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