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Why Science and Islam don't mix
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Czarjorge



Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. Just, wow.
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As in:

"Wow, I never knew that my version of history was actually a rewriting of history by religious nuts to take claim for the advancements of civilizations they ended"?

Or,

"wow, just wow. I'd better just pretend to be able to continue by being arrogant and then quietly piss off into the night"?
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Czarjorge



Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, wow, I know people as ignorant as you existed, I've just not often run into them.

No, wow, you apparently believe the propaganda you read. Even if it is written by an uncredentialled, seemingly as the gentleman you sight in your quoted letter does not list any, guy whose only references are websites that seem to take the Assyrians are great and Muslims are bad.

No, wow, I know that there are people out their who would dismiss the contributions of the an entire culture, but I didn't think anyone who taught for a living would be so... limited. You're not a teacher are you? Sweet Christ I hope not.

No, wow, I can't believe I spent this much time refuting someone who is clearly a troll, or a nutter.

So, yeah, I'm done with you. Not that someone like you would care about being dismissed. I hope that you're being a goof, if not, wow. Just wow.
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Option B then, eh?
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twg



Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thepeel wrote:
they only survive beyond iron-age technology because they borrow from (or more properly, buy from) other more successful civilizations.

I love the story of the Pilgrims and the first Thanksgiving...
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, you can list many modern advancements from these nations? Read the United Nations human development report from 2003. I'm hardly alone in believing this.
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thiophene



Joined: 15 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't much of the creation of us in embryology explained in the quran or something? a friend told me that a one.
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Pluto



Joined: 19 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, according to the Qu'ran, the world was created in six days, but it says that a day to Allah is different to the human understanding of 24hours. Indeed, the Qu'ran speculates that one day could be as long as a million years. Many Christian, and even Jewish, fundamentalists believe seven days to equal one week, or they actually believe the world was created in 168 hours with 24 hours of rest. This is another hole in the Judeo-Christian belief in Creationism, but that is for another thread. Cool
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading that bit about the Assyrians was a lot like listening to the worst kind of Korean nationalist. All you can do in response is Rolling Eyes For a non-Assyrian to buy into it says a lot about their thought patterns. Kinda like my whitey co-teacher who is married to a Korean; he's more Korean than she is.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thepeel wrote:
So, you agree that they basically aggregated the ideas of formerly non-muslim lands but add that they also added ideas of still non-muslim lands?


No. The rocket was invented by Seljuk Turks recruited by Kublai Khan.

The rest of the wiki article details Islamic inventions, most of which occurred before the emergence and establishment of occasionalism in Islamic theological-jurisprudence.
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Big_Bird



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Czarjorge wrote:
No, wow, I know people as ignorant as you existed, I've just not often run into them.

No, wow, you apparently believe the propaganda you read. Even if it is written by an uncredentialled, seemingly as the gentleman you sight in your quoted letter does not list any, guy whose only references are websites that seem to take the Assyrians are great and Muslims are bad.

No, wow, I know that there are people out their who would dismiss the contributions of the an entire culture, but I didn't think anyone who taught for a living would be so... limited. You're not a teacher are you? Sweet Christ I hope not.

No, wow, I can't believe I spent this much time refuting someone who is clearly a troll, or a nutter.

So, yeah, I'm done with you. Not that someone like you would care about being dismissed. I hope that you're being a goof, if not, wow. Just wow.


I've always found thepeel (aka BJWD) hard to stomach. His posts are often quite hateful. I wonder if he was gang-raped by muslims when he lived in Turkey? But what would I know? I'm just another douchebag. Wink
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros. Go through your list and click on the actual wiki pages of those inventions. Then, go to 'history'. I don't know if BC means "muslims did it" but there an a tremendous number of total nonsense on that page.

We can not allow them to take claim for things they did not invent. We can not elevate, cause it makes us feel warm, their astonishingly little accomplishments. We focus on Western imperialism and try to take an honest assessment of it, why not Arab/islamic imperialism?

Here is just one example:

Windmills were first built in Sistan, Afghanistan, sometime between the 7th century and 9th century, as described by Muslim geographers.


windwheel operating an organ is described as early as the 1st century AD by Hero of Alexandria, marking probably the first instance of a wind powering machine in history.


So, something was invented, the area then stolen and colonized by the muslims and the locals subjected to dhiminitue. Then, under a system of dhinmitue the original invention was made larger and the arabs took credit. Then, naive Westerners parrot the story "muslims invented it" cause it makes them feel tolerant.
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big_Bird wrote:
Czarjorge wrote:
No, wow, I know people as ignorant as you existed, I've just not often run into them.

No, wow, you apparently believe the propaganda you read. Even if it is written by an uncredentialled, seemingly as the gentleman you sight in your quoted letter does not list any, guy whose only references are websites that seem to take the Assyrians are great and Muslims are bad.

No, wow, I know that there are people out their who would dismiss the contributions of the an entire culture, but I didn't think anyone who taught for a living would be so... limited. You're not a teacher are you? Sweet Christ I hope not.

No, wow, I can't believe I spent this much time refuting someone who is clearly a troll, or a nutter.

So, yeah, I'm done with you. Not that someone like you would care about being dismissed. I hope that you're being a goof, if not, wow. Just wow.


I've always found thepeel (aka BJWD) hard to stomach. His posts are often quite hateful. I wonder if he was gang-raped by muslims when he lived in Turkey? But what would I know? I'm just another douchebag. Wink


The notorious PIG, remember?
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loose_ends



Joined: 23 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big_Bird wrote:
Czarjorge wrote:
No, wow, I know people as ignorant as you existed, I've just not often run into them.

No, wow, you apparently believe the propaganda you read. Even if it is written by an uncredentialled, seemingly as the gentleman you sight in your quoted letter does not list any, guy whose only references are websites that seem to take the Assyrians are great and Muslims are bad.

No, wow, I know that there are people out their who would dismiss the contributions of the an entire culture, but I didn't think anyone who taught for a living would be so... limited. You're not a teacher are you? Sweet Christ I hope not.

No, wow, I can't believe I spent this much time refuting someone who is clearly a troll, or a nutter.

So, yeah, I'm done with you. Not that someone like you would care about being dismissed. I hope that you're being a goof, if not, wow. Just wow.


I've always found thepeel (aka BJWD) hard to stomach. His posts are often quite hateful. I wonder if he was gang-raped by muslims when he lived in Turkey? But what would I know? I'm just another douchebag. Wink


i dont agree in thepeel on this one, but argee with your last point Wink
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Czarjorge wrote:

No, wow, I know that there are people out their who would dismiss the contributions of the an entire culture


Interesting. This is exactly what you are doing. The arab/muslim invaders entered an area and took control of it, making the people dhiminis. Then, they declare all of the land, knowledge and property as part of the dar el islam. The contributions of the cultures they just cleansed are appropriated into the islamic fold. 1200 years later, those civilizations are dead and the lie stands because nobody is left to defend the truth.

I am well read on the history of islam and islamic expansionism. I am very, very familiar on what happened, how it happened and what life was like for a dhimni. The muslims (mostly Arabs) who were in control of an area, often as a small minority, did nothing. The work was done by the dhimnis. All production. And the dhiminis had to pay a jiyza or tax for not being muslim. The muslims lived off this tax and used it to finance their expansion. Today, the arab world is hardly different. Dubai, where I am going to today, again, is just like this. In Saudi, they call it "being Saudi". Not working and just living off the cash of others, be it the Indian migrant workers or the petro dollars. Not much has changed in the original home of mohammad.

Maybe oil is a muslim invention too.
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