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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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Will you be leaving Korea, thanks to these new regulations? |
YES |
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Total Votes : 95 |
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beast
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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Everyone has to just take a deep breath and relax a little. For months now we've all been creating this paranoia of what may happen based on conflicting reports, speculation, and gossip. I have no doubt that the OP is 100% correct in everything he wrote, but keep in mind that nothing is set in stone in Korea. Things change, rules are overlooked, rules are bent, rules are interpreted in a variety of different ways. Just look at the threads for example about obtaining an international debit card or a credit card. For years and years we've been reading about that. Some banks say it's against the law, some banks say it's against company policy, and yet some banks give you the card no problem at all. It's the same with immigration. So all I'm saying is don't panic yet. Wait until your hogwan feels the crunch of teachers not being able to get visas and then the rules that are being mentioned now will slowly bend, be overlooked, be dismissed, etc. and everything will be back to normal. |
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whatever

Joined: 11 Jun 2006 Location: Korea: More fun than jail.
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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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King Baeksu wrote: |
I'm sure your ninja-like sense of humor will come in most handy during your next visa renewal interview... |
...which will never happen, because I'm getting out of this hell-hole. I'm glad you enjoy mediocrity so much.  |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:34 am Post subject: |
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Wow! Sparkling. It's getting way too bright for my eyes.
I've never really been happy here anyway, it's just that the thought of starting from scratch somewhere else is pretty daunting.
I'll still wait and see though. They are having a meeting on Monday regarding new contracts and things for next year. If I can avoid this crap for 1 more year, hopefully I will have enough in the bank by then to feel secure about it all.
I kinda have a feeling that even if people renew before the deadline, their schools will be hassling them to get this stuff done regardless. How many times did they have to review my documents already.  |
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Milwaukiedave
Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Location: Goseong
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Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:49 am Post subject: Re: So, I just got off the phone with immigration (Dec.14th |
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JeonjuMichael wrote: |
These new regulations only apply to E-2 visas. Anyone working on an E-1, E-7, F2, C4, etc will not be affected. |
Just to address this part of the regulations, employers can implement their own requirements on other visa holders regardless of what immigration does. I've heard that the public universities will be asking for the same information from F series visa as E-2's are made to give to immigration. |
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SirFink

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
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Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:47 am Post subject: |
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King Baeksu wrote: |
Actually, I know and have met quite a lot of expats who either came here or remain here because of an interest in the local culture. |
"Local culture"? Is that what they're calling Korean poon these days? |
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Netz

Joined: 11 Oct 2004 Location: a parallel universe where people and places seem to be the exact opposite of "normal"
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Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:06 am Post subject: |
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superdave wrote: |
there WILL be benefits ... and maybe this is how the korean government sees it.
there is a MASSIVE number of foreigners coming to korea to work. it creates a lot of problems because the market is saturated with potential employees ... one of the problems is the systematic abuse of employees by hogwans. why pay them when you can fire the foreigner and get another one???
if korea makes visas more difficult to get, people who are prepared to jump through the hoops will get a visa ... people who are lazy will go to thailand/china/wherever.
so this will reduce the number of foreigners ... it'll also (probably) reduce the number of idiot foreigners, because coming here will be hard work.
the effect, then, will reduce the potential work pool.
the result will mean that wages will increase (less supply, more demand) and exploitation by hogwans will drop because it'll COST MORE money to fire and rehire.
i have to agree that the new rules appear to be stupid, and they appear to be racist, and they appear to be everything bad.
but if they thin out the herd ... especially the retards at the bottom of the foreign gene pool who come here and make everyone look bad ... then that's good for the rest of us. |
This all sounds great, but do you really think it's all that well thought out?
I'd completely agree if we were in a place that seemed to follow some universally recognizable modicum of common sense, however the type of predictability you are implying, is seldom present in Korea.
Seriously. |
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browneyedgirl

Joined: 17 Jul 2007
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Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:04 am Post subject: |
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Even though they changed all the rules, I still want to go to Korea. I just hope I can complete everything. I don't know if the new rules will be a benefit or hindrance, only time will tell. |
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Lilo's Mum

Joined: 27 May 2007 Location: backwards town in backwards country listening to backwards people speaking in backwards tongue ...
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Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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~Ha Ha, I meant to vote "YES!"
I think that like so many other new regulations that Korea tries to impose, this will eventually fail. The people that are here now just need to ride out the storm and if in fact, it doesn't change in the near future, teach else where. Korea is not the end all and be all. It's not even the highest paying. My husband and I were planning to finish out the year and move to a new country anyway. As our misfortunes would have it, our school is closing. We are able to transfer our visa as we are in that "grace" period, however we aren't sure we want to. This is all very disheartening. The truth is, we are all getting worked up about a country that doesn't really care about English advancement. They don't care about the foreigners who are here to teach. I'm sure I'll get many replies from people who think they are actually making a difference in the grand scheme of things but we really aren't. We are here for the money and they hire us for the money, that's it. We've been here almost 2 years and this was but one stop in our adventure. We have a baby girl that was actually born here and we certainly don't want to raise her here and learning the useless language. Don't get offended people it's true. We've met some nice people here but that's all I can really say about Korea....there are some nice people.
Look, all I'm trying to say is that unless you have no other choice but to teach English HERE, there's no reason to get all worked up. There's a whole world out there!
Anyway, I don't usually post out here due to my outspoken nature and the level of personal attacks I see in these forums. I thought I'd give it a try but will not give in to debating as it is futile to argue this anyway.
Time to go watch 'The Wiggles' with my daughter..... Merry Christmas everyone!~  |
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chaz47

Joined: 11 Sep 2003
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Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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So... my current contract expires Feb. 28th as does my visa. I've been offered a university job next semester and no one in their office has replied to any email I send regarding the visa changes (they reply to other subjects though... odd).
If I am expected to do all of this nonsense then I will leave. I currently work for EPIK and have done all of the paperwork they required. I've submitted criminal background checks and medical checks already. I thought it was a good idea then, I think it's a good idea now, I don't think it's a good idea that I should have to do them again and again and again.
It's simple math the cost of flying home and potentially waiting is just NOT cost-effective. I'll take my savings and spend a year in Thailand working for peanuts on the beach waiting for this bullshite to blow over.
If it doesn't then oh f*cking well. I find this culture interesting but the restrictions they put on foreigners are racist and retarded. Why are the rules regarding the F-5 permanent residency visa so labyrinthine? Another poster mentioned that if you marry a Korean gain the F-2, have a kid, then divorce your visa is revoked and you will have a very difficult time seeing your offspring. The whole system is set up to keep us out of their culture.
Maybe I'll go to Japan where I can actually apply for permanent residency some day. Where learning the language will actually be worth something. Where they still use Chinese characters that are relevant to the modern world. Where my only purpose in the culture isn't just an English provider.
The people of Korea are miserable. They have only themselves to blame yet they are always seeking scapegoats. Because we are the "other", we are the most convenient scapegoats. Many believe that it's OK to lie to foreigners and overcharge them. Many think it's OK to insult and say derogatory things about foreigners in their presence just because they assume they we don't understand any Korean.
All of this negativity sucks balls. It brings us down. How many long termers do you know here? Listen to them speak sometime, I can all but guarantee no matter how happy they claim to be they will not be able to talk for 5 minutes (probably less) without b*tching about Korea.
I have been a closet apologist in the past but I'm tired of making excuses for this country. |
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Lilo's Mum

Joined: 27 May 2007 Location: backwards town in backwards country listening to backwards people speaking in backwards tongue ...
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Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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*clap clap clap* (chaz47 )
What he said. |
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fruitcake

Joined: 18 Apr 2004 Location: shinchon
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Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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chaz47 wrote: |
So... my current contract expires Feb. 28th as does my visa. I've been offered a university job next semester and no one in their office has replied to any email I send regarding the visa changes (they reply to other subjects though... odd). |
ask them to give you an E-1 visa. |
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hogwonguy1979

Joined: 22 Dec 2003 Location: the racoon den
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Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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chaz47 wrote: |
So... my current contract expires Feb. 28th as does my visa. I've been offered a university job next semester and no one in their office has replied to any email I send regarding the visa changes (they reply to other subjects though... odd).
If I am expected to do all of this nonsense then I will leave. I currently work for EPIK and have done all of the paperwork they required. I've submitted criminal background checks and medical checks already. I thought it was a good idea then, I think it's a good idea now, I don't think it's a good idea that I should have to do them again and again and again.
It's simple math the cost of flying home and potentially waiting is just NOT cost-effective. I'll take my savings and spend a year in Thailand working for peanuts on the beach waiting for this *beep* to blow over.
If it doesn't then oh f*cking well. I find this culture interesting but the restrictions they put on foreigners are racist and retarded. Why are the rules regarding the F-5 permanent residency visa so labyrinthine? Another poster mentioned that if you marry a Korean gain the F-2, have a kid, then divorce your visa is revoked and you will have a very difficult time seeing your offspring. The whole system is set up to keep us out of their culture.
Maybe I'll go to Japan where I can actually apply for permanent residency some day. Where learning the language will actually be worth something. Where they still use Chinese characters that are relevant to the modern world. Where my only purpose in the culture isn't just an English provider.
The people of Korea are miserable. They have only themselves to blame yet they are always seeking scapegoats. Because we are the "other", we are the most convenient scapegoats. Many believe that it's OK to lie to foreigners and overcharge them. Many think it's OK to insult and say derogatory things about foreigners in their presence just because they assume they we don't understand any Korean.
All of this negativity sucks balls. It brings us down. How many long termers do you know here? Listen to them speak sometime, I can all but guarantee no matter how happy they claim to be they will not be able to talk for 5 minutes (probably less) without b*tching about Korea.
I have been a closet apologist in the past but I'm tired of making excuses for this country. |
well said, exactly how we feel |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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JeonjuMichael wrote: |
superdave wrote: |
there WILL be benefits ... and maybe this is how the korean government sees it.
there is a MASSIVE number of foreigners coming to korea to work. it creates a lot of problems because the market is saturated with potential employees ... one of the problems is the systematic abuse of employees by hogwans. why pay them when you can fire the foreigner and get another one???
if korea makes visas more difficult to get, people who are prepared to jump through the hoops will get a visa ... people who are lazy will go to thailand/china/wherever.
so this will reduce the number of foreigners ... it'll also (probably) reduce the number of idiot foreigners, because coming here will be hard work.
the effect, then, will reduce the potential work pool.
the result will mean that wages will increase (less supply, more demand) and exploitation by hogwans will drop because it'll COST MORE money to fire and rehire.
i have to agree that the new rules appear to be stupid, and they appear to be racist, and they appear to be everything bad.
but if they thin out the herd ... especially the retards at the bottom of the foreign gene pool who come here and make everyone look bad ... then that's good for the rest of us. |
I think you have this backwards - there are approximately 17,000 legally employed E-2 visa holders working at hagwons and public schools. If you ever peruse the job boards or have a look online, you will see that the they are screaming for more teachers here. In no way is there a "saturation" of this market - every city is experiencing shortages, private lessons are in huge demand because of the rarity of foreign teachers, especially anywhere 50km or more south of Seoul. The only schools that operate on a "why pay them when you can fire the foreigner and get another one" policy are hiring illegals who have no rights or status here and are usually working on their visitor visas.
The wages will not increase as a result of these inane new regulations. Schools won't be able to afford foreigners - you will see a landslide of private language academies closing their doors with the massive shortages they will be facing.
This has nothing to do with laziness. It has everything to do with the inconvenience, the bureaucracy and the delays associated with what is supposed to be an attractive proposition - working in an exotic location overseas for high pay. This isn't Italy or Spain or France - no one I know comes to Korea for the culture or for the tourism opportunities. They are drawn to this country because of the high pay and the convenience of the visa run industry and the ability to save and pay off debts. You are right - people will be flocking to other countries, such as Thailand or China, not necessarily for the ease and high pay (Korea was the easiest and one of the highest paying), but because you can pick up and go tomorrow and, with a little digging, find a position that pays your airfare, accommodation and offers a salary nearly comparable to Korea today. Take an extra week and find something as good or better in another country, or wait 60 - 90 - ??? days for a criminal check to come through, subject yourself to drug testing and drive (or fly) however far to your nearest embassy for a pointless interview? The choice will be very easy for most people, I imagine. Honestly, I don't think you will find that many foreigners that would say this country is worth the hassle. If we were talking about Japan we may hear an entirely different story.
I am all for eliminating the foreigners who make the rest of the teachers here look bad (fighting, alcoholism, child abuse, drug use, etc.) but there are other ways, such as through the enforcement of existing Korean laws and better reference checks on the part of the employer, not the government. |
Very well said...
What this comes down to is that the Korean government thinks embassy staff are better qualified to assess a potential employee than the business that will be paying him.
I guarantee the embassy interview will never take hold. It will be done away with in the next 2-4 months, if not sooner. |
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sera
Joined: 05 Feb 2007
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Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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Atavistic wrote: |
I have an odd question. My CONTRACT finishes May 27th but my VISA AND ARC expire May 1st. May 1st is the date I'm supposed to be the hell out of here then? So I can renew Mar 1st? Is that right? |
wait...how does that work? your workplace wrote up a contract until the 27th but gave you a visa only until the 1st??
ask/tell them to extend it unless they want you to leave early...you don't need to renew, unless you're going to work there longer.
paranoia--> I wonder if it's a ploy to get you to break the contract... ^^ |
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Atavistic
Joined: 22 May 2006 Location: How totally stupid that Korean doesn't show in this area.
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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:49 am Post subject: |
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sera wrote: |
Atavistic wrote: |
I have an odd question. My CONTRACT finishes May 27th but my VISA AND ARC expire May 1st. May 1st is the date I'm supposed to be the hell out of here then? So I can renew Mar 1st? Is that right? |
wait...how does that work? your workplace wrote up a contract until the 27th but gave you a visa only until the 1st??
ask/tell them to extend it unless they want you to leave early...you don't need to renew, unless you're going to work there longer.
paranoia--> I wonder if it's a ploy to get you to break the contract... ^^ |
No, it's not a ploy to get me to break the contract. I was evicted from my hogwon apartment because my boss didn't pay rent. She wouldn't cancel my visa, wouldn't give me a letter of release, wouldn't find me new housing or even answer my phone calls, nothing, so I was LEGALLY in the country but was NOT working and was afraid that she was going to report me AWOL even though I had proof I was evicted, Labor Board had found in my favor, etc.
So from the first Friday of April I was here legally, but not working.
My PS wanted me to start May 21st, but I couldn't because my parents were in town, so I started May 28th (which they agreed with).
Because I was already in Korea, I needed to do my visa run. They said I could do it whenever I wanted. I did it May 1st.
So I had my new visa (and was here legally) several weeks before I started working.
None of this, however, still answers my question: Can I extend Mar 1st? |
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