Korean Job Discussion Forums

[stevemcgarrett]

Do Koreans and other East Asians tend to view flexible thinking differently than Westerners?

Consider this scenario:

If you tell a (platonic) East Asian friend on Monday that you'll meet her for dinner that coming Friday but then you have a change in plans (not deemed an emergency or beyond your control) and thus call a couple nights later to postpone, will she be likely to find it rude or unthoughtful?

Chances are a Western friend would shrug her shoulders and cheerily accept a raincheck unless the date had romantic overtones. But from my experience, at least, the East Asian friend would be miffed and regard it as an indiscretion, or perhaps a cavalier attitude toward keeping promises.

And the likelihood of such divergent reactions seems to increase if the East Asian friend happens to be more traditionally minded in her thinking.

What I find inflexible if not intransigent in the East Asian friend's reaction, she would find not only acceptable but expected. "You made a promise to me which you should honor, especially since we are friends and you had a choice."

Now consider a similar scenario with the roles reversed: The same East Asian delays making a decision about how to respond to her Western friend's request for dinner until she is certain the appointment can be kept. This delay due to self-deliberation is seen as reasonable, as it takes into sincere consideration the feelings of the Western friend. It reflects the great importance most East Asians attach to dependability in those they know well. It also shows concern for group harmony. But, alas, the Western friend isn't likely to see it that way. Instead, the delay in deciding is seen as unnecessary, perhaps nonchalant, or even indecisive--itself a sign of weakness. Depending on how well they know each other's personalities, the Western friend might even consider it rude to have to wait, especially if the East Asian friend hasn't indicated other plans beforehand.

Or take this scenario: You as the Westerner make a plan to arise very early the next morning to spend more time visiting a Buddhist monastery before the onrush of other tourists. You even make the mistake of adding the word "maybe," which often if not usually translates to "yes" or "for sure" to your East Asian friend's ears. Your East Asian travel companion agrees to the idea, also disliking crowds in a place where serenity should reign.

Then the two of you stay up late, hitting one bar or nightclub too many, and crawl into bed three hours later than you, the Westerner, had anticipated. You're either too tired or drunk to discuss tomorrow with your Asian friend, who is also too tired or drunk. At the agreed on time, 8 a.m., your East Asian friend awakes and starts to get ready. You are still dead to the world. You turn off your alarm and finally wake at 10 a.m. You anticipate that your East Asian friend will understand but she really doesn't, even though she doesn't let on much that she's dismayed.
You find her reaction inflexible but don't bring it to her attention.

Then we have the countless examples of last minute scheduling of classes for the FT even at the universitiy level. Is it motivated by the belief that the FT is inclined to be flexible in such matters or by the belief that the faculty's need to know isn't deemed important and that in any event this is how things operate so flexibility is only reasonable?

With these scenarios in mind, what's your take on this apparent different in cross-cultural perceptions about when flexibility is needed and when it should be avoided?

[shortskirt_longjacket]

The fact that you must clarify your East Asian friend as "platonic" hints that the friend might actually be otherwise (in your mind and/or your friend's).

This is where the offense is occurring. She is most likely assuming that your relationship is--or will be--something different than you take it to be, hence her inflexibility.

But I actually don't believe that your friend is strictly platonic, and here's why:

You relate a scenario wherein you and your friend go clubbing together and presumably spend the night in the same apartment (if not the same bed) and she wakes up to go to a buddhist monastery which you had suggested you might be interested in going to the next day.

She definitely thinks you guys are a thing. In which case, it's not an East Asian/Western misunderstanding, but a dude and a chick and a serious misunderstanding about what's going on between them.

She wants you, dude. And I'm assuming because you're letting her crash at your place after a night of drunken cavorting that you're kind of in the same boat.

Only you're a douchebag and don't like to be held to your promises with respect to a girl who is interested in you. You like to be selfish and do your own thing, take stuff as it comes in the way that it suits you, rather than once in a while making some kind of sacrifice and doing what the other person wants (e.g., getting your a5s out of bed when you're hung over to take your friend to the buddhist monastery).

Number one rule in dating (if you want the relationship to continue): Let them know you give a crap. Don't do anything that would suggest otherwise. Bailing on her shows her you don't give a crap. And so, if you indeed don't give a crap, stop hanging out with her.

Also, if this friend is platonic, why are you even thinking about this beyond the circumstance? If she was nothing to you, you would literally just forget about her behavior the moment it happens.

This is Dear Abby 101, folks. It's not hard.

Also, I don't get your last question about "last minute scheduling of classes for the FT." Clarify.

[venus]

[Homer]

[Ilsanman]

I tend to dislike either one, being cancelled on or rescheduled. But doubly so if there were some kind of romantic overtone.

I have friends who always keep their promises and other friends who break them all the time. I think that's up to the individual.

To me, the reason I don't like it is b/c I left my schedule open at that particular time, and when an appointment is cancelled, I have *beep* all to do.

[VanIslander]

[Homer]

Ok..Van..you set a time and place to do something with a friend...and you do not show up, do not call to let the person know you will not make it (hypothetically of course)...isn't that breaking an appointment?

If not, what word would you use?

I think a promise is too strong a word to use here but an appointment to me is agreeing to meet at a certain time and place to do something....I could be wrong....

[Gwangjuboy]

Koreans generally aren't flexible; confucianism doesn't encourage it.

[Mix1]

"IS FLEXIBLE THINKING VIEWED DIFFERENTLY BY KOREANS?"

How about we answer that with another question...

"IS FAN DEATH VIEWED DIFFERENTLY BY NON-KOREANS?"

Ok, not the best analogy, but we tend to view a lot of things differently.

The "platonic" (yeah, right) lady friend in the scenario probably views Steve's "flexible thinking" as flaky irresponsibility. Anyway, when dealing with women, remember that many of them are used to getting their way in relationships and expect males to bend over backwards for them. Steve isn't doing this and it's rubbing her the wrong way.

[VanIslander]

[venus]

[the eye]

[Don Gately]

[jeffkim1972]

In Korea, there are hardly any platonic relationships between the opposite sex. you must marry them or just work together with them.

Going to dinner alone, she probably takes it as you wanting to marry her. Although she might not express it to you openly.

Any broken appointments, postponements, and no-shows will be taken as you not wanting to marry her, which translates into you having no interest in her as far as a relationship goes.

It has nothing to do with past relationships. Maybe if you apply the western model of dating.

In Korea, especially if you are past a certain age ( 18 ), or within the marriage age (between 18 and 29), or even in the "past your chance to marry age" (30 and above), making a dinner appointment means you want to marry them.

It is just the Korean way. Most of these women have never even held hands before.

[venus]