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idonojacs
Joined: 07 Jun 2007
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 Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:31 am Post subject: E-2 teachers, ambassadors of Korean goodwill? |
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When I first came here to teach English, I thought to myself, what a wonderful system Korea has created. Young people, many recent college graduates, come to Korea to teach English, to work with Korean young people, to get to know Korea, its people and culture.
After their stint in Korea, they would go home and tell their countrymen about what a nice place Korea is. They might get a job in business where they could use their expertise about Korea and Asia. Perhaps they would stay in touch with their students and one day put these connections to good use, perhaps in business.
Koreans learn English, Westerners learn about Korea, the nations, East and West, develop closer ties and goodwill.
Before I came here, and one reason I chose to come here, was because I met some of those people who had been to Korea and liked it.
But for some shortsighted reason Korea seems to have chosen to throw all that goodwill away.
Only a relative few of the 17,000 native English speakers in Korea read this website. But if the new E-2 regs stay in place, sooner or later all of them are going to find out what has happened. Because the schools are not doing anything to inform their E-2 teachers of the new rules, many of them will learn of the new regs too close to their contract renewal time to gather what documents they can in Korea.
They will be caught by surprise, and I expect many of them will be unable to complete the requirements for an E-2 renewal within a reasonable time. And so they will have to leave Korea, whether they like it or not. And when they grasp the new E-2 regulations fully, I do not think they are going to be favorably impressed. Once it sinks in, they are going to be as irate as most of us, if not more so.
All for what?
All of this is so totally unnecessary. The vast majority of us came here hoping to like Korea. Most of us have made good Korean friends. But the Korean government, with its new, thoughtless E-2 regulations, seems intent on turning us all into enemies. Don't they realize the ill will that it is going to create, which will be spread across the globe? I am not a recent college grad, but those who are are going to be around for a long, long time. And so will be their opinions of Korea.
What countries are Korea's friends? What countries can it call an equal and a partner?
Instead of talking of friendship, Korea seems focused on building economic muscle to dominate the world economy. To anyone familiar with world history, especially the 20th century, this will sound familiar. Economic power does not last forever. Eventually, you need your friends.
Will Korea have any? |
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Roch
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:35 am Post subject: Re: E-2 teachers, ambassadors of Korean goodwill? |
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| idonojacs wrote: |
When I first came here to teach English, I thought to myself, what a wonderful system Korea has created. Young people, many recent college graduates, come to Korea to teach English, to work with Korean young people, to get to know Korea, its people and culture.
After their stint in Korea, they would go home and tell their countrymen about what a nice place Korea is. They might get a job in business where they could use their expertise about Korea and Asia. Perhaps they would stay in touch with their students and one day put these connections to good use, perhaps in business.
Koreans learn English, Westerners learn about Korea, the nations, East and West, develop closer ties and goodwill.
Before I came here, and one reason I chose to come here, was because I met some of those people who had been to Korea and liked it.
But for some shortsighted reason Korea seems to have chosen to throw all that goodwill away.
Only a relative few of the 17,000 native English speakers in Korea read this website. But if the new E-2 regs stay in place, sooner or later all of them are going to find out what has happened. Because the schools are not doing anything to inform their E-2 teachers of the new rules, many of them will learn of the new regs too close to their contract renewal time to gather what documents they can in Korea.
They will be caught by surprise, and I expect many of them will be unable to complete the requirements for an E-2 renewal within a reasonable time. And so they will have to leave Korea, whether they like it or not. And when they grasp the new E-2 regulations fully, I do not think they are going to be favorably impressed. Once it sinks in, they are going to be as irate as most of us, if not more so.
All for what?
All of this is so totally unnecessary. The vast majority of us came here hoping to like Korea. Most of us have made good Korean friends. But the Korean government, with its new, thoughtless E-2 regulations, seems intent on turning us all into enemies. Don't they realize the ill will that it is going to create, which will be spread across the globe? I am not a recent college grad, but those who are are going to be around for a long, long time. And so will be their opinions of Korea.
What countries are Korea's friends? What countries can it call an equal and a partner?
Instead of talking of friendship, Korea seems focused on building economic muscle to dominate the world economy. To anyone familiar with world history, especially the 20th century, this will sound familiar. Economic power does not last forever. Eventually, you need your friends.
Will Korea have any? |
You are one of Roch's Socks!!! |
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idonojacs
Joined: 07 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:37 am Post subject: |
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Roch:
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| You are one of Roch's Socks!!! |
Excuse me?
Am I missing something here? |
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Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| idonojacs wrote: |
Roch:
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| You are one of Roch's Socks!!! |
Excuse me?
Am I missing something here? |
I think Roch means you and him are on a similar thought pattern about the E-2 regulations. Why would Roch call another post his own sock? Or maybe Roch and jdonojacs are the same person.
I prefer Mr. Socko, Mankind's prop when using the Mandible Claw.
OP, Korea has never fostered much good will toward the majority of English teachers. That's why the US government even warns people not to teach in Korea. The money in Korea is the only reason most people come here. Other nations and their people, even China, CHINA, on human rights groups' hit lists, treat teachers better. They just don't pay as much.
I'm happy in Korea, and I'm on an E-2 visa, but there are many things I would change about this country and I don't think it fosters good will 90% of the time. The only redeeming value are some of the Korean friends I have. Some of them are wonderful and world class. |
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lastat06513
Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Location: Sensus amo Caesar , etiamnunc victus amo uni plebian
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| Only a relative few of the 17,000 native English speakers in Korea read this website...... |
Even though there are not many people who WRITE on this forum, it doesn't mean almost every teacher doesn't READ it.....
You don't know how many people I've met and had either fruitful or fruitless discussions regarding the subjects from these threads.....
And the OP is right to some degree......Korea does need friends and by painting foreigners within its borders as drug-using pedophiles while trying to paint an economically dynamic picture of Korea outside the country seems too much of a paradox and sooner or later (more sooner by my estimates though.....) some of those backpackers who travelled through Korea will become policymakers in their homecountries (For instance, I had even met a Canadian and an Australian while I was in Korea who moved on to politics in their homecountries........)
Korea must understand that alot of the people coming to teach in Korea are not uneducated and are worldly aware or who don't forget about their experiences as soon as the plane touches off from Korean soil.....
So Korea, the people you cheat now might be the ones you need support from tomorrow......never burn your bridges after you cross them............ |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:31 am Post subject: |
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What countries are Korea's friends?...
Instead of talking of friendship, Korea seems focused on building economic muscle... Eventually, you need your friends.
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Countries do not have friends. Countries have interests. Two countries act like friends exactly and precisely as long as their interests coincide. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| lastat06513 wrote: |
[...) some of those backpackers who travelled through Korea will become policymakers in their homecountries (For instance, I had even met a Canadian and an Australian while I was in Korea who moved on to politics in their homecountries........)
Korea must understand that alot of the people coming to teach in Korea are not uneducated and are worldly aware or who don't forget about their experiences as soon as the plane touches off from Korean soil.....
So Korea, the people you cheat now might be the ones you need support from tomorrow......never burn your bridges after you cross them............ |
Except that people who go into politics soon learn that they must toe the party line whether they personally agree with it or not. I doubt an entire mainstream political party is willing to burn it's bridges with Korea. And any sensible politician will realize that blaming a country of 45 million plus for the actions of a few is silly...heck any sensible adult would. |
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Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Conservative wrote: |
| lastat06513 wrote: |
[...) some of those backpackers who travelled through Korea will become policymakers in their homecountries (For instance, I had even met a Canadian and an Australian while I was in Korea who moved on to politics in their homecountries........)
Korea must understand that alot of the people coming to teach in Korea are not uneducated and are worldly aware or who don't forget about their experiences as soon as the plane touches off from Korean soil.....
So Korea, the people you cheat now might be the ones you need support from tomorrow......never burn your bridges after you cross them............ |
Except that people who go into politics soon learn that they must toe the party line whether they personally agree with it or not. I doubt an entire mainstream political party is willing to burn it's bridges with Korea. And any sensible politician will realize that blaming a country of 45 million plus for the actions of a few is silly...heck any sensible adult would. |
What about blaming a few foreigners in Korea for all of Korea's problems? Sensible adults wouldn't do this. The Korean government and media are another story. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Bibbitybop wrote: |
| The_Conservative wrote: |
| lastat06513 wrote: |
[...) some of those backpackers who travelled through Korea will become policymakers in their homecountries (For instance, I had even met a Canadian and an Australian while I was in Korea who moved on to politics in their homecountries........)
Korea must understand that alot of the people coming to teach in Korea are not uneducated and are worldly aware or who don't forget about their experiences as soon as the plane touches off from Korean soil.....
So Korea, the people you cheat now might be the ones you need support from tomorrow......never burn your bridges after you cross them............ |
Except that people who go into politics soon learn that they must toe the party line whether they personally agree with it or not. I doubt an entire mainstream political party is willing to burn it's bridges with Korea. And any sensible politician will realize that blaming a country of 45 million plus for the actions of a few is silly...heck any sensible adult would. |
What about blaming a few foreigners in Korea for all of Korea's problems? Sensible adults wouldn't do this. The Korean government and media are another story. |
And they don't. When has any Korean politician ever said that the few foreigners in Korea are responsible for ALL of Korea's problems? Not even close. |
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crusher_of_heads
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Location: kimbop and kimchi for kimberly!!!!
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| IMF crisis, Einstein. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| crusher_of_heads wrote: |
| IMF crisis, Einstein. |
You must learn to read more carefully. I said "when has any Korean politician ever said that the few foreigners in Korea are responsible for ALL of Korea's problems." (bolding done to draw your attention to what we are talking about.
Now unless you are claiming that the IMF crises is the sum total of Korea's problems and that Korean policiticans were blaming the foreigners that WERE IN KOREA for it.... |
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lastat06513
Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Location: Sensus amo Caesar , etiamnunc victus amo uni plebian
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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The Korean gov't follows popular sentiment, especially with regards to what is shown in the media....
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| When has any Korean politician ever said that the few foreigners in Korea are responsible for ALL of Korea's problems? |
When they start restricting banking transactions for foreigners (for fears that foreigners will take their hard earned money out of the country- which accounts for a fraction of the money often taken out of the country by Koreans, especially those on the run for things like tax evasion), when they place more restrictions on visa procedures for foreigners (because someone with an E7 visa got caught doing something, they automatically place restrictions on people getting E2s), when they restrict investment or stock purchases BY foreigners (because the gov't blamed foreigners for manipulating the stock market), when they prevent people from lending a helping hand by doing volunteer work (in regards to those foreigners who tried to put on a cultural show in Busan, where they were arrested and deported.....what kind of nation deports or threatens to deport people for helping out on their own free time?)
Should I go on?
As for MPs and congressmen/women, they might not be able to change their party's policy overnight, but they can influence and lobby against something that might not be in the best interest of American citizens overseas...which they reciprocated by denying Korea membership in the VWP (thanks to the help and lobbying power of the VFW/American Legion and one influencial chapter president ( whose name I won't mention here....  ) who is friends with the Korea-Dongduchon chapter president.
Economic prosperity doesn't equate into regional or global influence and the more people who teach will go home with bitter memories, the better the chances are that this will hurt Korea's image.
I love Korea, but the more the nation as a whole shoots itself in the foot, the chances increase that it would only embarrass itself. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| lastat06513 wrote: |
The Korean gov't follows popular sentiment, especially with regards to what is shown in the media....
| Quote: |
| When has any Korean politician ever said that the few foreigners in Korea are responsible for ALL of Korea's problems? |
When they start restricting banking transactions for foreigners (for fears that foreigners will take their hard earned money out of the country- which accounts for a fraction of the money often taken out of the country by Koreans, especially those on the run for things like tax evasion), when they place more restrictions on visa procedures for foreigners (because someone with an E7 visa got caught doing something, they automatically place restrictions on people getting E2s), when they restrict investment or stock purchases BY foreigners (because the gov't blamed foreigners for manipulating the stock market), when they prevent people from lending a helping hand by doing volunteer work (in regards to those foreigners who tried to put on a cultural show in Busan, where they were arrested and deported.....what kind of nation deports or threatens to deport people for helping out on their own free time?)
Should I go on?
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Just provide a link (just one will do) where any Korean politician has said that the few foreigners in Korea are responsible for ALL (EVERY SINGLE ONE) of Korea's problems.
FYI that "cultural show" was more about poking fun at Koreans. Do tell me, who exactly were they "helping"?
Nor were they all deported. At least two of them remained in Korea and on this board for some time afterwards in fact. |
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lastat06513
Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Location: Sensus amo Caesar , etiamnunc victus amo uni plebian
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:17 am Post subject: |
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that "cultural show" was more about poking fun at Koreans. Do tell me, who exactly were they "helping"?
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So it is ok for a singer to go around singing a song titled "f^ck America" and a non-profit performance troupe is not allowed is arrested and deported for performing a show that showed Koreans how foreigners see them?...........wow! Such a double standard on the side of Korea.....
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| Nor were they all deported. At least two of them remained in Korea and on this board for some time afterwards in fact. |
Yet again, you amaze me!
Only 2 out of the 9 performers were allowed to stay? That really shows how lenient and generous Korea is....NOT!
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Just provide a link (just one will do) where any Korean politician has said that the few foreigners in Korea are responsible for ALL (EVERY SINGLE ONE) of Korea's problems.
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All a person has to do is to go to a any of the English language news sites, pull up an article about the crimes and corrupt acts foreigners commit in Korea and you will find a statement attributed to a left-wing, communist, xenophobic politician from either the URI party or its stalinist associate.
Why did USFK threaten to pull out completely from Korea back in 2002-03?
Why is the US scaling back its military presence in Korea?
Why did foreign-direct investment decrease steadily from 2002 up until now?
Why did many companies pull their operations out of Korea?
Alot of these questions are answered by saying Korea is one of the least foreign friendly countries in NE Asia.
I find it quite ironic that I can go to places like China and Vietnam, places that are still considered strategic enemies of the US, and yet still get treated awhole lot better than a country that is considered to be the US's strongest ally........  |
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idonojacs
Joined: 07 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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Well, what do you know?
Former ESL teacher in Korea makes good.
Kathleen Stephens became a real ambassador. To Korea.
Congratulations!
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Kathleen Stephens, senior U.S. State Department adviser for East Asia and Pacific affairs, has been appointed the first female ambassador to South Korea....
She taught English as a member of the Peace Corps in Buyeo, South Chungcheong Province for two years from 1975.
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I wonder if she saw too many episodes of MASH?
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200801/200801140014.html
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=110629
Maybe we should all send her a note of congratulations? |
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