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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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 Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
How do you determine when something is not what it seems?
Example Pluto... I know Occams Razor - look for the simplest explanation and call it science! Until proven wrong! But until that day! Its science! It�s correct! And don�t anymore dare dispute it! |
What do you mean by Pluto? Other than we redefined what a planet is, I'm not sure how this rescues your argument.
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It�s a ghost until disproved! It�s a UFO until disproved!
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Science for the nth time doesn't work that way. If you want to demonstrate the existence of a new entity then provide the evidence.
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| There is evidence! Videos, photos, evps, testimonies!, haunted houses! Poltergeists, so much evidence if you want to see it! If you refuse to look at it then sure.. A pessimist mind only sees what it wants to... |
Same goes for fairies. Sorry but we've not entered fairies into our taxonomy despite the photos and eye witness accounts. Believe in ghosts as an article of faith. Whatever gets you through the day. But if you want to demonstrate it scientifically then you need to do the hard work. Find a repeatable experiment that demonstrates you've got a ghost.
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| Dude! The foundation??? Yeah ok! Basically scientists just go with the simplest explanation and then sit by that theory right or wrong! |
Look. Einstein's relativity led Einstein directly to the conclusion that the universe was expanding. This was in the day when pretty much everyone believed in Steady Stage. He didn't like that. So he invented an entity and simply called it the cosmological constant. He later admitted this was his greatest blunder.
Anyway, yes, scientists simply do not propose a new mechanism or entity until they've first demonstrated why existing mechanisms or entities can't account for observations. Medical researchers do not simply invent new viruses or diseases until they've eliminated the possibility the symptoms cannot be explained by known pathogens.
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That�s not what science is all about its Occams razor is all about...
Basically saying HEY well there is not enough evidence to correctly give a scientific theory on that hypothesis so let�s just take easiest route.. |
Hot air that shows you have a grade 8 understanding of science.
And the rest of your silly hot air ignored. Geez, really sucks to be biatched slapped around by someone smarter than you, huh? Look, I'll defer to you regarding how to run a business in Itaewon. Maybe you should start listening to the people who actually know something about what you think you're trying to score debating points about.
Anyway, still wondering what is your baseline for EVP. "This is clearly ghost talk and this is clearly interference." Got any published research on that? |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
[Hot air that shows you have a grade 8 understanding of science.
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no! shows that I am right you don�t want to accept that!
Science can�t prove it! so they call Occams razor!
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| What do you mean by Pluto? Other than we redefined what a planet is, I'm not sure how this rescues your argument. |
simple! means by occam razors theory you will just call it something and then carve it in stone! until disproved!
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| Science for the nth time doesn't work that way. If you want to demonstrate the existence of a new entity then provide the evidence. |
I have provided the evidence! for the 100th time paranormal is something you cant just whip up in a test tube! so the EVIDENCE we do have we go on that!
why don�t you provide Evidence of LOVE! ive been waiting for that for sometime now... get my drift now! just because science can�t reproduce it sometimes we have to go on faith!
just like evolutionists do with so many unanswered questions!
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Same goes for fairies. Sorry but we've not entered fairies into our taxonomy despite the photos and eye witness accounts. Believe in ghosts as an article of faith. Whatever gets you through the day. But if you want to demonstrate it scientifically then you need to do the hard work. Find a repeatable experiment that demonstrates you've got a ghost.
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NO I don�t need to do the science experiment! something�s just can�t be reproduced! as im sure you know!
Ill throw one back at you..
Prove that life could have evolved on Earth by any natural means !
ohhh the scientific experiment evidence if you please!
I want lab results! documented results of reproduced life from nothing!
all biologists will tell you.
All living things come into existence from parents.!!
spontaneous generation???
hahahhaha fairies anyone!! Santa Claus! why not if we are going to believe in magic lets just say it was spontaneous random by chance! ohh it was god! chit maybe it was an alien!
the science theory doesn�t mean its right just because a bunch of snot nose tweed jacket wearing pipe smoking PHD atheists say so!!
what use occams razor here?? what do you have!!?!! NOTHING!!!!
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| Geez, really sucks to be biatched slapped around by someone smarter than you, |
NO. because you WILL NEVER! have the answers to the BIG questions..
while I sit at the top of the mountain with the big questions in hand
I just watch you down there running around like a headless chicken giving theories and trying to look intelligent!.
to me that�s not important and you can devote your whole life in the trenches to find out! but you will just die like so many others who racked their brains and still at the end of it all! weren�t closer than the last guy!
you don�t have all the answers! and if you try to tell me you do then you are the fool not me!
A few notes to let you know where we are at!..
1: During all recorded human history, there has never been a substantiated case of a living thing being produced from anything other than another living thing.
2: Evolutionism has not produced a scientifically credible explanation for the origin of such immense complexities as DNA, the human brain, and many other complex elements of the cosmos.
3:It is highly premature for materialists to claim that all living things evolved into existence, when science has yet to discover how even one protein molecule could actually have come into existence by natural processes.
4: There is no scientific proof that life did (or ever could) evolve into existence from non-living matter. Further, there is substantial evidence that spontaneous generation is impossible. Only DNA is known to produce DNA. No chemical interaction of molecules has even come close to producing this ultra-complex code which is so essential to all known life.
AMAZON. com! you can read for the next hundred years and after you read the one million books you still won�t have the answers!
hey sure you are more informed about these subjects than me. It was never an interest of mine until recently. I asked my grandparents a long time ago who are respectable PHD scientist who worked for Unesco also my grandfather co wrote most of the science books in asia during the 60's and 70's and spent his whole reading and still does at 87 ! I just asked him.. are the questions all answered! is god eliminated!? is there a clear winner?
he replied NO..
so from then I said well no of point me spending my life researching it. Ill just wait till someone has the golden ticket!
I never said I was smarter than you..
but I know for fact you are not smarter than 99% of the scientists out there so if they are saying we don�t have all the answers and the debate is still up for grabs there are mysteries in the world and unexplained phenomena at work even in the biology and the evolutionist realm I will keep reading and listening what they say~! and you can keep regurgitating DAWKINS and HITCHENS! |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
| why don�t you provide Evidence of LOVE! ive been waiting for that for sometime now... |
Have you tried hanging around the bathrooms at Burgerking on a Saturday night? |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| ED209 wrote: |
| itaewonguy wrote: |
| why don�t you provide Evidence of LOVE! ive been waiting for that for sometime now... |
Have you tried hanging around the bathrooms at Burgerking on a Saturday night? |
yeah I did see that number on the wall! CALL ED for BLOWJOBS! |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
| ED209 wrote: |
| itaewonguy wrote: |
| why don�t you provide Evidence of LOVE! ive been waiting for that for sometime now... |
Have you tried hanging around the bathrooms at Burgerking on a Saturday night? |
yeah I did see that number on the wall! CALL ED for BLOWJOBS! |
No job too small! |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| ED209 wrote: |
| itaewonguy wrote: |
| ED209 wrote: |
| itaewonguy wrote: |
| why don�t you provide Evidence of LOVE! ive been waiting for that for sometime now... |
Have you tried hanging around the bathrooms at Burgerking on a Saturday night? |
yeah I did see that number on the wall! CALL ED for BLOWJOBS! |
No job too small! |
no thanks! Ill pass! but thanks for offering!
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Scarlet13
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Changwon
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| Wow this thread has kind of wondered off course... |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| Scarlet13 wrote: |
| Wow this thread has kind of wondered off course... |
Nah, it's right on course. Mindmetoo pointed showed Itaewonguy to be wrong several times now, and Itaewonguy, instead of realizing when he's been outclassed, has decided to use a very clever "Drunk Logic" tactic.
It's a good tactic to take because most people just give in and say "Okay, whatever. You're right. Just shut up." |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
[Hot air that shows you have a grade 8 understanding of science.
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no! shows that I am right you don�t want to accept that!
Science can�t prove it! so they call Occams razor!
| Quote: |
| What do you mean by Pluto? Other than we redefined what a planet is, I'm not sure how this rescues your argument. |
simple! means by occam razors theory you will just call it something and then carve it in stone! until disproved! |
You've written basically nothing here that makes any sense in the english language.
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| Science for the nth time doesn't work that way. If you want to demonstrate the existence of a new entity then provide the evidence. |
I have provided the evidence! for the 100th time paranormal is something you cant just whip up in a test tube! so the EVIDENCE we do have we go on that! |
If you cannot produce a repeatable experiment then you simply can't call it scientific evidence. Sorry.
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| Prove that life could have evolved on Earth by any natural means ! |
Prove? What would it take to prove that to you? Science offers evidence for theory, not proof.
Regarding your list. Could you provide the link where you're simply copying and pasting this stuff from? It's good scholarship to cite your source. |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
Prove? What would it take to prove that to you? Science offers evidence for theory, not proof.
Regarding your list. Could you provide the link where you're simply copying and pasting this stuff from? It's good scholarship to cite your source. |
Evidence For theory!!! Hahahahhahahahahaha WHAT?
ok! Then so does the paranormal then!
Do you have the evidence (PROOF) or not? ohh now you are saying science doesnt actually need proof! what it is? you keep changing your mind everyday or when you feel threatend!
Why do I need to copy and paste the book I got it from that�s not important.
It doesn�t matter where I got it from! Fact is scientists can�t answer those questions also atheists can�t, evolutionists cant! And most importantly
YOU CAN�T!
You got anything else for me? Ill happily keep knocking you down all day!
You sit here and try to tell me science needs evidence to back up a claim
But when I present you with something to back up! you say science doesnt use proof it uses evidence for theory!
Again!
Prove that life could have evolved on Earth by any natural means!
ohhh the scientific experiment evidence if you please!
I want lab results! Documented results of reproduced life from nothing!
If you can�t provide me with that evidence then you have nothing more than a theory!
But you want me to prove to you scientifically that ghosts exist!? 
Until then you can�t back up your theory then I don�t see why I have to back up mine!
Scientists believe it to be true! Based on the evidence they have! And of course anti Christians like you will happily support that claim
So paranormal believers can believe their theory with the evidence they have! I really dont see the difference!
Now do you understand! The arrogance of your ideology!
You stand by science, you demand people to back up their claims with science but you CAN�T and when you no you cant you don�t bother to even address the posts I write!! Hahahahahaha
What ever you say! You and your cronies on here can say I am losing this argument! Or I cant debate or what ever! Hahahhaah
I don�t care! If I did care I would have stopped a long time ago!
Fact is I know im right and you know im right! Problem is you don�t want to come off looking like a chump! You want theists to look like the chump when you present them with the question show me your evidence of god!
Show me your evidence of ghosts!
show me lab experiment data!
why dont you show me!!! ohh becuase you cant!
I have played with you for a couple weeks now! And you are still to dumb to realize that the big questions can�t be answered! But conceited atheists arm chair scientists like you think you have solved the mysteries to the universe! Hahahaha you cant even unlock your front door to your house!
I have presented you with questions plenty of times over the past few weeks which you ignore to not lose face.
Do you want me to list the impossible questions again for you?
Would that make it a little easier for you?
sure you have a theory for those questions! A T H E O R Y !!!!!
and to stay on course of this thread we believers of ghosts and paranormal ALSO have a theory without scientific data to back it up!
but I dont see why we need to back it up when you cant back up your claims!
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| If you cannot produce a repeatable experiment then you simply can't call it scientific evidence. Sorry. |
Ill be waiting for the results of the repeatable experiment on life being created from nothing! take your time no hurry! |
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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| twg wrote: |
| Scarlet13 wrote: |
| Wow this thread has kind of wondered off course... |
Nah, it's right on course. Mindmetoo pointed showed Itaewonguy to be wrong several times now, and Itaewonguy, instead of realizing when he's been outclassed, has decided to use a very clever "Drunk Logic" tactic.
It's a good tactic to take because most people just give in and say "Okay, whatever. You're right. Just shut up." |
Oh my goodness!  Where's the humour? Seriously, no one has proven that ghosts exist, so it's silly to have a debate on the subject. The believers versus the non-believers is about 50/50. Generally speaking, the non-believers need to have an experience in order for them to change their mind. Arguments on the internet or elsewhere will not be enough. That's fine. People will believe whatever they want to believe. |
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Biblethumper
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Location: Busan, Korea
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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There are no ghosts.
The souls of the reprobate go to hell to wait for the judgement day.
The souls of believers at death, being made perfect in holiness, do immediately pass into glory, and thier bodies, still being united to Christ, do rest in their graves till the resurrection. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
Evidence For theory!!! Hahahahhahahahahaha WHAT?
ok! Then so does the paranormal then!
Do you have the evidence (PROOF) or not? |
Evidence for what? Evolution. Yes. Provided previously.
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| ohh now you are saying science doesnt actually need proof! what it is? you keep changing your mind everyday or when you feel threatend! |
No. If you understood basic english, you'd see I never said anything about proof. Evidence and proof are two different things. I've explained this to you countless times before. I gave you, for example, the analogy of a court trial. You sure you don't have a lot of Albanian blood in your Italian lineage? Nothing anyone tells you seems to sink in.
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| It doesn�t matter where I got it from! Fact is scientists can�t answer those questions also atheists can�t, evolutionists cant! And most importantly |
Is the site a creationist site? Then any answer that doesn't involve "god did it" would be a poor answer to those questions. If it was from a legit science site, then there are hypotheses and evidence in answer.
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You sit here and try to tell me science needs evidence to back up a claim
But when I present you with something to back up! you say science doesnt use proof it uses evidence for theory! |
Again, in the evolution debate, the evidence has been laid before you. You never did visit the molecular evidence pages. I'm still waiting for you to explain why that evidence is not good enough. You can keep asking for proof. I can keep offering you the lines of evidence. You can keep just ignoring them without comment and come black blowing a lot of hot air screaming about whatever it is infecting your little mind. Oh well. Now get busy on those links and shut up about evolution and evidence/proof until you can tell me specifically what is wrong. Here they are again, idiot.
http://evolution-101.blogspot.com/2006/03/molecular-evidence-1-protein.html
http://evolution-101.blogspot.com/2006/04/molecular-evidence-2-dna-functional.html
http://evolution-101.blogspot.com/2006/04/molecular-evidence-3-transposons.html
http://evolution-101.blogspot.com/2006/04/molecular-evidence-4-redundant.html
http://evolution-101.blogspot.com/2006/04/molecular-evidence-5-endogenous.html
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| Prove that life could have evolved on Earth by any natural means! |
I don't have proof. I have evidence. How much evidence will convince you?
It's easy to demonstrate complex organic material not only forms naturally in space but on earth in conditions know to exist on the early earth. It is easy to demonstrate some systems can become self replicating. It is not a stretch to imagine one such system of organic molecules becoming self replicating. If you really want to know more, read Dawkins The Selfish Gene.
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| If you can�t provide me with that evidence then you have nothing more than a theory! |
No. That would be a hypothesis. A theory is that which is backed by lines of evidence.
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| But you want me to prove to you scientifically that ghosts exist!? |
I'll say it again. Maybe you'll read this time.
I want compelling evidence photographs are ghosts, not just camera errors. I want compelling evidence EVP is ghost talk, not just EM interference. I want compelling evidence reports of ghosts are of an undiscovered entity not just known failings of human observation. You propose a new entity. Back it up with good evidence. A 100 can say they've seen ghost, fairies, bigfoot, or a dinosaur in the congo. Believe in any of them as an article of faith but if you want it added to the taxonomy then you need to offer the evidence for this new entity.
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Show me your evidence of ghosts!
show me lab experiment data!
why dont you show me!!! ohh becuase you cant! |
You can't. Right. Maybe someone much much smarter than you might one day. I'll love that. Until then I"m not going to believe in Santa, angels, ghosts, bigfoot, or a North American tree sloth until there is compelling evidence. |
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Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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Saying there is no proof of evolution is like standing outside in a drenching rainstorm and declaring that there is no evidence that you are getting wet.
Let me introduce you to PubMed. This is a freely accessible online database of articles published in the biomedically related fields of the life sciences. It indexes over 4800 journals and contains about 12 million articles going back to 1966, and it's growing constantly. It's very good if you are interested in looking up literature in medicine, zoology, biochemistry, etc.; it's rather incomplete if your interests run to botany, paleontology, or geology, other fields that are rich sources of research in evolution. (By the way, another incredibly useful adjunct is HubMed, an alternative interface to PubMed that lets you get search results as an automated RSS feed. I've got a whole stack of automatic HubMed searches in my newsreader; how do you think I find all these cool articles?)
Here's a simple thing you can do: search PubMed for all articles that discuss evolution. It's not a very practical search, because it returns too much; you're also going to get some number of false positives, because "evolution" is a word used in other contexts than evolutionary biology, but at the same time remember that PubMed doesn't address all fields that deal with evolution equally well, and many papers discuss the details and mechanisms of evolution without putting the word in a title or abstract. When I just did that search, it came back with 177,396 articles on the subject, 25,759 of which were review articles�which means that in the somewhat limited PubMed database, there are about 150,000 primary research articles on evolution.
150,000.
That's a big number, representing a huge amount of work. To narrow the scope a little bit, you can limit the search to the last 30 days; when I did this just now, it returned a list of 697 current articles on evolution. I'd have to read over 20 articles a day just to keep up! I feel like I've been diligent if I read one or two articles in depth during a day, and skim through a handful more�these aren't light reading, after all, but data-rich technical papers loaded with big words and acronyms and referencing tens to hundreds of other papers.
Here's another source of information: the Library of Congress. Go ahead and search for books on evolution, or to be really specific, search for Library of Congress numbers QH35-QH425. You'll be busy for a while. Again, to narrow it down to something more accessible, I searched the University of Minnesota library system to see what they had on hand. 4,445 books. Even restricting myself to just books acquired in the last year, it's about 330 (again, with some false positives for books on stellar evolution, for instance, or evolution of economics). Discounting that number a bit, it still means that to just keep up with the books my library acquires on this one subject, I'd have to read one every other day�on top of the 20 research articles I'd have to be reading every day.
I'm feeling tired already.
My point here is that there is an incredible amount of evidence for evolution, far more than any one person can digest, and that it is a vital field, still growing and still producing new results. All those papers don't get published unless they contain some new observation, a new experiment, a new test of the idea�and evolution has weathered them all.
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Anyone who believes evolution is hooey needs to look up why HIV is so difficult to eliminate. |
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