Korean Job Discussion Forums

[J.B. Clamence]

[TECO]

[katydid]

Hey Weatherman....if that guy doesn't show up tomorrow night, tell us what you will do in terms of his grade.
Tell us anyways, what you would have done, if he shows up anyways. I'm curious to know how a 5+ year master at a Korean uni pulls things off.

[weatherman]

[Austin]

Korea does not have a monopoly on "university education" being a joke. Take a look at the students that are coming out of university in Canada, the U.S., the U.K., etc.!

Admittedly, it is quite amusing to read about the people that are condemning the quality of Korean university education, especially since they have been employed to "teach" and are not even quite sure how to fulfill that obligation.

Have you people forgotten from where you have come?

Freshman year in the U.S. is full of the same kinds of behavior that you find here in Korea. Give a shout to one of your former professors, and I am sure they will remind you from whence you came.

For several of my undergraduate courses in the U.S., attendance was optional, so I only attended three class hours (the first day, the midterm, and the final). Do not get me wrong, there are some classes that one might need to attend, but introductory courses in any of the humanities are not them! Sorry, but getting "A's" on multiple guess tests is a no-brainer. Obviously, it depends on your rate of reading comprehension, but when tests are derived from what is covered in a required text, what is the point of attending class?

I could be mistaken, but I thought the entire point of jumping threw the university "hoop" was to be able to get employed in a "field" that one was interested in working.

Why would one object to students beginning to work outside the classroom?

Do you seriously believe that attending class is more important than their position (especially in the tight job market)?

Extracurricular activities are extremely important in Korea, as the relationships that they foster with their seniors, etc. will come into play when they are looking for a position after graduation, etc.

How can the notion of "being strict" equate to your students actually "benefitting" from your class? Some things in life might need to be black and white, but does the education process really belong in that mix?

[Zed]

[Korea Newfie]

[Austin]

[Zed]

You list a lot of exceptional circumstances to back up a general policy.

Katydid's student was negligent. Students who are victims of the weather are not comparable. Your already fluent students also have no bearing on the case in question. Certainly excuse them from the attendance requirement. That has no relevance regarding excusing everyone from it.

[Kwangjuchicken]

[quote="katydid"]This happened to me last semester. I had a really good student miss his final cause apparently he had to go and get a physical for the army. ]



This has happend to me at least 100 times since I arrived in Korea 5 years ago. You see, you never hear back from them because right after the physical, they are in the army. As you said in your topic heading "Conscription".
One more example of how %^$^%$%$ed up this country is. I mean, why pull students out of college just a week or 2 before the semester ends????????????
I think Koreans have meetings and make lists of the stupidest things to do and the stupidest times to do them. Then they vote. The most stupid "wins".
Here is a great example. At my first college, mid-term week is the most busy week of the year. (1.) All profs. Korean and natives, all departments had huge classes and very heavy course loads. (2.) We still had to have regular classes during mid-term week. So, if a class was 2 or three days a week, one day was test other day(s) regular class. (3.) The last day of that week (Friday) we had to turn in mid-term grades to the sec. Not just test grade but all things included to give a grade to each student up to that time.
Well, as you can imagine it was a nightmare week. BUT ALSO, that was the same week that they had the physical exams for the profs for the college insurance .
So, on top of all of that, a 1 hour taxi ride to, back and in line in between at the hospital.

AND 5 years in a row, at 2 diff. colleges and now my current university, they did student evaluations on the same day as elections for student president. As anyone with common sence (i.e., non Koreans) might guess, my best 10 or so students, my "front row students", the ones that loved me the most, missed ONLY teacher evaluation day. Why? Because those are the type of students who participate in student elections.
The list goes on and on.
But I have also gone on and on, so I gotta go. BYE BYE and no, I am not going to proff this for typos. I don't give a rip.

[Austin]

Zed,

Are you stating that the "rules" should be applied differently to exceptional students?

Why not treat them all the same?

[kangnamdragon]

My understanding is that it is the student's job to make the appointment for the military physical. The military does not just give a random date and pull students out of class during the school year. A younger Korean friend of mine had to make the appointment for his physical and he chose when to enter the army. I may be wrong, but it is hard to believe that date is set in stone.

[merrilee]

Austin,

While it�s true that the bulk of the world consists of shades of gray, these students are supposedly preparing to enter the workforce. In any job they attain, they will certainly be required to perform all sorts of tasks which may seem arbitrary, not unlike being forced to attend class or take an exam.

What is the point, you ask? Perhaps the point is that these students chose to enter university, and as such, they have chosen to follow the rules of the university. In my opinion, half of the value of getting a degree is to show that one can �get through� college, meaning an individual was able to follow whatever rules and perform whatever tasks were required. No?

I, too, had several classes in college in which attendance was not compulsory; thus, I did not attend. However, for the classes where attendance was required, I attended. And while my attitude was that I paid the university thousands of dollars and should consequently be able to attend or not attend at my choosing, I still adhered to the rules of each class.

And BTW, I never had a class at UT where sitting for the final was optional. If a student didn�t show up, said student received a zero.

That being said, I think I�m a very flexible teacher, as I agree that flexibility is needed. However, there are always limits. I do not set the rules for students at my university; I merely enforce them in the most liberal way I know how.

[J.B. Clamence]

[Austin]

Damned liberals...

Merrilee,

Since you acknowledge that university is a "hoop" that your students must jump threw before entering the workforce, why would you object to your students entering "work-study" programs?

If I agree that performing arbitrary tasks helps students prepare for the "real" world, might you admit that every moment outside of your classroom is also an opportunity for your students to learn?

Considering all of the societal, familial, and peer pressure being placed on young people to conform to the "norm," do you really believe that these young adults truly believe they have a choice as to whether to enter university?

If half of the value of getting a degree is to show that one can �get through� college, meaning an individual was able to follow whatever rules and perform whatever tasks were required, would not "exceptions" and "favors" be part of that system?

Again, though I realize my personal experience is an exception, we are discussing exceptions. Another example, my professors allowed me to miss my finals one term, because I was leaving the country to travel around Europe for the winter break. While I could have flown out later and spent less time abroad, I explained my "flight" situation to them and only one of the four professors required me to submit a paper in the absence of the final (all of my professors recognized and commented on the raw value of my solo venture, two of which expressed their wish for every student to have the experience of traveling abroad).

As far as adhering to the rules, people may disagree, but there seem to always be exceptions.

Sorry, but I would not use UT to reference any standard of quality...lol.

J.B. Clamence,

I am glad that you acknowledge that you are in Korea. As such, I hope you adjust your personal standards to fit that of your university (for your sake and the sake of your students).

A simple conversation with your Korean counterparts should set you on the "right" track.