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u a native english speaker who has become fluent in korean?
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tomato



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, Ohahakehte!

In Korea, the going rate for foreign language classes is about 70000 won.
English classes for foreigners are offered in communities of at least a half million people.

Here's a suggestion if you don't mind going off the beaten path:

Attend Korean sign language classes instead. Here in Cheongju, I attended Korean classes for a month, but switched to sign language classes. Here are the arguments for my case:

Wink It involves movement. Ever hear of TPR (Total Physical Response)? I make the same claims as the proponents of TPR. Except that the TPR proponents can only explain that they walk, run, and hop while they talk about walking, running, and hopping. Sign language study, on the other hand, involves movement for all parts of speech.

Wink The teacher will not speak to you in English. In Korea, there are very few foreign language teachers who do not spend most of the classtime speaking in the students' first language. On the other hand, my sign language teacher either doesn't know English or pretends not to.

Wink The tuition is at least as cheap. I was told that the fee was 40000 won a month, and they haven't even shown me the bill yet.

Wink You get at least as much individual attention. At present, I'm the only student.

Wink It is not more difficult. A sign language course starts with the common basic words, just as a foreign language course does.

Wink Someday you might meet a Korean deaf-mute.

Right now, I'm on cloud nine. I'm writing this letter after attending an annual program presented by the local association for the deaf. I didn't understand half of it, but I understood more than I thought I would. In fact, I even learned a couple of signs.

Most of all, nobody infantilized me. Nobody spoke English to me when I went in, nobody spoken English to me during the program, and nobody spoke English to me when I went out.

I even had my first experience in communicating in sign language. I couldn't follow the printed program, so I turned to some deaf mutes sitting behind me and signed, "Where are we?" They answered me.
A class of high school girls signed while a popular song was being played. I went up to them afterward and signed, "You did well." They giggled, giggled, giggled. That was probably the first time they saw a foreigner speak Korean sign language.

If I can do it, you can do it.
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Derrek



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

komtengi wrote:
I majored in Korean for three years at university. 6 hours a week, during that 3 year period 1 year was spent here as an exchange student, classes were 9-1 at Korea university. I've now been here for going on 2 years and my Korean is at an advanced level. I found it really easy, but I also did f all study, just picked it up in everyday conversations. Some people just have an ability for languages, for the others its a real *beep* fight to learn a language


I am one of those who have a real shit fight to learn the language. Give me a computer or something electronic, and I can fix/do it before most. But try to teach me a language, and I take forever.
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lush72



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: I am Penalty Kick!

PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tomato wrote:
It's good life insurance. If I ever get good enough, I could semi-retire as a Korean translator.


No, you could not. Translation here is a low paying field and in the states- who�s kidding who? Now if these 2 don�t apply, please accept my apology - I work in �compliance and liability� at a chaebol. My team goes over contracts, some worth tens of millions of dollars, and the poor translators (who are FLUENT in English and Korean) make LESS then 2 mil a month. In the US? Unless you want to work for the government, the labor pool (as large as it is) keeps wages artificially low. So, unless you are somewhere that the market for Korean goods and / or services is underdeveloped, the chances of you making a living as a translator are slim at best. I learned Korean for the sake of communicating with my in-laws. Here, I make a good wage with it but back home� I really don�t think it will help me at all. Translation is a field to enter only if you have an aptitude for languages, if your in it for the money you will surely be disappointed.
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kiwiboy_nz_99



Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...

PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will always have teaching as my main job, however I think translating could be good work "on the side". I plan to be here a long time, and get totally fluent. As it is I'm coming along nicely, Korean girlfriend doesn't hurt that proccess one bit, in fact my progress has sped up drastically.

I dissagree with the sign language thing. You get good at what you practice, and if you want to speak Korean you need to speak Korean at every opportunity. That and hit the books hard.

Good luck everyone.
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The Great Wall of Whiner



Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Middle Land

PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Hardwork and Dedication. Reply with quote

carcerate wrote:
how did you do it?

When I was attending undergrad at UCSD, I lived with a half-Korean/half-Chinese friend for two years during my junior and senior years. During the first year I lived with him, I did not really learn any Korean at all from him. Then in the year 1999 during the summer time I took my first steps in learning the alphabet and vocabulary. Then I graduated in 2000 with a computer science degree and at that point I had such a great interest in learning Korean, I really wanted to go to Korea. So I found a job as an English Instructor and went in July to teach English in Korea. I put my computer programming goals on hold.

how long did it take?

I lived in Korea from July 2000 to July 2001 and when I was not teaching at the Hagwon, I was studing Korean. I studied in the morning for 4 hours, after work for about 4 hours. On the weekends, I would study for like 6-8 hours a day. I did this for one year straight and after diligently, applying myself, I now can communicate just fine in korean through typing on the keyboard and verbal communication. I have been in Southern California from July 2001 till now and I even study Korean hear in America. After you learn the basics, you can learn the language of your choice anywhere as long as you have the proper materials! I am so thankful for the help that I have received from a very select few of special Korean friends who helped me. I am so honored with the time taken to help me learn Korean from my friends.

how hard did you find it?

I did not find learning Korean that tough because of my great and pure interest in the language. The written language is so logical and well formulated that it made the spoken language very easy to learn based on phonetics. Lastly, I thank God for the people in my life who helped me learn Korean. I plan to use my Korean language ability to help others and be a positive influence in society. Also, since I was able to basically become proficient in the Korean language in about 2 years, this will give hope to Koreans who want to learn English. If you have a genuine interest, you can learn at a much quicker pace than expected.

Of course, everyday I learn more and more Korean vocabulary and improve on my language skills all of the time. Even in English, I still learn words when I read the newspaper or read TIME magazine. So life is one continual learning process.

I hope this testimony satisfies your curiousity.


HHAHAHAhahaha!!!!!!!!

CGA!!!!!!

I know it's you!
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Ilsanman



Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea

PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 8:05 pm    Post subject: yes Reply with quote

I have an easy time with written korean. I can't understand spoken korean cuz they speak too fast or mumble over half of the time.
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shawner88



Joined: 01 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

komtengi wrote:
Some people just have an ability for languages, for the others its a real *beep* fight to learn a language


I'll agree to this. I know a Korean girl who speaks just like any native speaker and she's only 21 and had never been overseas. I didn't think all that much of it until she started learing Spanish. Within a few months I couldn't believe it. She sounded exactly Mexican. Now she's in Mexico, by the way.
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ohahakehte



Joined: 24 Aug 2003
Location: The State of Denial

PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tomato:

im deeply fascinated with any and all sign languages in the world. its an interesting idea to study korean sign language but i doubt ill do it. i dont meet very many deaf people around seoul in my everyday life.
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Homer
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
how did you do it?


Began by self teaching. bought books and practiced on my own.
Then asked a Korean Teacher at my school if she was willing to help. she was too busy but asked one of her friends to help and this ended up being a language exchange (French for Korean...knew the french would come in handy someday Laughing ).
This exchange helped but I needed a bit more structure so PNU here I come (Pusan Nat Uni). Took courses there for a year or so (by this time I had met my wife) and this went faster.
By the end of the course I was doing pretty well. Was able to hold a decent convo with Koreans. Since then been mostly practicing when we take family trips and go out with friends. I sometimes take my nieces on trips which are all in Korean.
I would not say I am completely fluent but I can speak it, understand it and even write and read it with ease.

Quote:
How long was it and how difficult?


It took a year to be able to hold a good conversation and a few more years to be able to read and write and hold a more complex conversation. Immersion is the best method, I had plenty of chances to practice with my wife's family. The Chang Gi games with my father in law and brother in law were one of the best chances to get confortable with speaking Korean.
Then my nieces were a good chance to speak Korean, they are great and speaking to kids is fun sometimes... Laughing
Breakfast with my mother and sister inlaw was also a good chance to practice.

The how hard was it really depends on your level of motivation and approach. Of course some people have a gift with languages and that makes it easier. Just set realistic goals for yourself and keep at them.

Finally learning Korean depends on what you want. Learning a new language in my opinion is always worthed as it teaches you lots of things.
In my case Korean has also opened up job opportunities (consulting) so thats a side benefit.
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Mashimaro



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: location, location

PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Homer wrote:

In my case Korean has also opened up job opportunities (consulting) so thats a side benefit.


Can you tell us some more about your consulting work? I'm interested in jobs for bilingual foreigners in Korea
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dogbert



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210

PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lush72 wrote:
tomato wrote:
It's good life insurance. If I ever get good enough, I could semi-retire as a Korean translator.


No, you could not. Translation here is a low paying field and in the states- who�s kidding who? Now if these 2 don�t apply, please accept my apology - I work in �compliance and liability� at a chaebol. My team goes over contracts, some worth tens of millions of dollars, and the poor translators (who are FLUENT in English and Korean) make LESS then 2 mil a month. In the US? Unless you want to work for the government, the labor pool (as large as it is) keeps wages artificially low. So, unless you are somewhere that the market for Korean goods and / or services is underdeveloped, the chances of you making a living as a translator are slim at best. I learned Korean for the sake of communicating with my in-laws. Here, I make a good wage with it but back home� I really don�t think it will help me at all. Translation is a field to enter only if you have an aptitude for languages, if your in it for the money you will surely be disappointed.


I personally have worked with and hired Korean/English interpreters in the United States and know for a fact that a certified interpreter (at least in the legal field) makes a lot of money. Granted, it is difficult to attain that level of fluency and competence.
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Homer
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mashimaro,

I do consulting for Canadian companies doing or wishing to do business with Korea.
I do this on a contractual basis and part time for now.
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Jensen



Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Location: hippie hell

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Signing sounds fun...more info please. I'd love to hear about how deaf people fit into Korean society.

Translation work in the states can be flaky when you're working freelance. I've done a little and always got paid, but sometimes just barely. I've got a goal of getting an MA in Korean lit but I don't want to start until I'm at a proficiency level where I can really sink my teeth into my projects.

A number of companies are doing over-the-phone interpretation in the US (American-based land lines required...can't work from Korea) thanks to legislation that requires courts and hospitals to make interpreters available. My wife has her own company and contracts with the larger operations. Problem is you have to have a lot of specialized vocabulary for each type of call you might get: computer support, 911 dispatch, maritime emergencies, insurance statements, court proceedings, etc.

True fluency at the level required for interpretation is damned hard for most people. My wife has always been good at English, got a 4-year degree in the states, plus some grad school. Then she's been living with me for something like 14 years, taking additional training every year, and still it's a struggle at times. Even a native speaker would often come across unfamiliar terms. Nice thing is the schedule is flexible, but the money isn't great. $1,500 to $2,200 US a month for 7-8 hours a day (logged on, not on the phone all the time), which isn't bad if your lifestyle is more important than the money. Court interpreters make more, but they have to live in a big city with lots of Koreans, which costs a lot more.

I took an exam with Language Line (big outfit based in Monterey, CA) a long time ago, didn't pass it. Wasn't surprised. I've been studying too long to be as bad as I am in Korean.
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ohahakehte



Joined: 24 Aug 2003
Location: The State of Denial

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2003 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jensen wrote:

True fluency at the level required for interpretation is damned hard for most people. My wife has always been good at English, got a 4-year degree in the states, plus some grad school. Then she's been living with me for something like 14 years, taking additional training every year, and still it's a struggle at times. Even a native speaker would often come across unfamiliar terms. Nice thing is the schedule is flexible, but the money isn't great. $1,500 to $2,200 US a month for 7-8 hours a day (logged on, not on the phone all the time), which isn't bad if your lifestyle is more important than the money. Court interpreters make more, but they have to live in a big city with lots of Koreans, which costs a lot more.


true fluency in any language is a rare occurence i think. many people will say, "oh, i can speak this language" but i seriously doubt they are even close to real fluency. i would define real fluency as having native speaker quality of speech and ultimately being able to think in the language. thats very hard to achieve if you havent been learning the language since childhood or if you dont have a natural knack for languages. a lot of koreans might be able to more than get by in english, maybe even speak in nothing but english for a long time. but few of them have been learning it since childhood. im finding here in seoul that even those koreans who can speak at a level of virtual fluency make lots of mistakes in prepositions. it appears that for koreans the preposition-profuse nature of english is one of the biggest hurdles, and i can see why. their language has few of them and if you've studied languages other than english with few pronouns it makes you wonder why you have to say them to get your point across. but prepositions are key in english
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Corporal



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not "truly fluent" but I think in Korean a lot. Dream in it too.
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