Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Yurim]

From my limited experience teaching, the schedules I've met with seem to be as such:

Students come in with workbooks.

Teacher reiterates what workbook says and the students have to repeat sections that they've already read and done at home or might correct along the way. If there's a new section, it's helping them fill in that too. Shouldn't education be more about learning new things and the homework is review of what you've learnt that day? In terms of learning styles, why the chalkboard/paper/pencil method instead of combining relevant, interesting and applicable activities that foster communication and interaction in unconventional ways within conventional frameworks and situations?

The workbooks reiterate information ad nauseum so that everyone has to say the same thing about the one specific person or circumstance in the book to the point where it almost propagandizes learning. I personally don't see the point of everyone learning that Mr Blabityblah lived on 923 Something Street.


Sometimes there is time for marginally creative exercises, but I really worry that this way of teaching boxes students' minds in already from a young age when they are most impressionable, free spirited, and have immense potential. And they're so adorable and funny! I'd rather let them imaginate wild ideas (in English, I guess, considering it's an English learning center) and draw all over the walls all day than make them repeat the book stuff.

There's lingual synthesis, problem solving and skills to be learnt in drawing, for example a gigantic interactive scrabble game on the depressingly washed out blank walls of classrooms that look like the fries out of the "want fries with that?" glazed over gaze. Imagine the fun of magnetic paint (which does exist, so there's massive possibility for classes of games). By the time I look at the upper levels, the students just don't have much ambition or interests and they seem almost brainwashed. Is this just the classes I've visited?

I mean, a whole English semester can be made out of community service, outings and excursions every day. That way learning is kinetic, visual, experiential, not just plugging and chugging prescribed "right and wrong" answers into books.

And how about tree planting day??!

One thing is that Korean students are surprisingly good at English, difficult topics whose difficulty rivals American students at their age. Isn't there a better way to channel their energy and potential?

Sadly, as I write this, I'm editing and scoring online essays. I don't have other work!

[DongtanTony]

Even though I do agree with all of your idealism...there is something, even if it remains marginal...to be said for hagwon teaching methods.

Learning about Bloom's taxonomy...and relating some of that into teaching pedagogy...shows us that rote memorization is still a necessary foundation for learning and applying new skills.

Language acquisiton starts with rote memorization tasks...if I learn a new word or phrase, I must memorize that word first along with its pronunciation and meaning. If I don't...I'm never going to be able to say hello...thank you...or a number of other useful phrases that transcend many languages.

If I need to learn number systems in German, Korean, Russian, or English...chances are that I've been exposed to the phonetic pronunciation of those words...then I'm trying to memorize the system...for starters. Learning how to say "how much is it," and other phrases to apply my knowledge...comes a little later.

In Korea, many teachers learn how to say "how much is it" before they learn the number system. If I respond saying...and I have my computer at the moment, without Korean symbols as do all of those other "learned" members of Dave's...but if I respond saying "sam man gu chon oh beak il ship won," learning how much is it is a useless phrase unless I've learned, and memorized my number system.

Hagown curriculum isn't a be all end all....realize that first, you're working for a business. Your personal educational philosphies aren't that important...it may assist you in class management and supplemental materials...but you won't change Korean philosophies of education overnight...you'll stress yourself out.

But...just because I don't like most hagwon curriculum designs doesn't mean that I'm not teaching what they want me to teach to my full capability...nor am I limiting myself in my classroom. Fine...if you want me to teach that "I live at 824 Maple Ave.," then maybe I take it to the next level of the address system.

I live at 824 Maple Ave., Apartment 12...and so on...city, state, province, country...zip code...the list goes on and on...especially since Korean address systems are different.

The lessons are there OP...you just have to dig deeper...and maybe get ahead of your hagwon schedule in order to introduce lessons and activities that will satisfy you personally.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

They range from extremely effective to extremely pointless. There's one hagwon teacher in my town who's a near-native speaker and sees students in small groups for up to four hours a week. I can often tell who her students are when I get them in my PS class without asking.

[VanIslander]

With class size averages of 6-10 students, in hour-long classes twice a week and the freedom to use whatever textbooks or teaching materials the teacher wants, ...

hagwon teaching has been very effective in my classroom

I just had a spelling contest for the 90+ students in the Grades 2-6 aged hagwon and - after two years of my teaching here - the winner was no other than a grade 3 student who kicked butt against grade 5 and 6 students who began their English education without a native English teacher and had bad initial education in the connection between the alphabet and sounds. Anyways... spelling is just a small part, but does reflect listening ability and skills for the basic comprehension of reading... it's not just conversational skills that native English speaking teachers can bring to the hagwon classroom.

What is really FLAWED is the public schools English education, not the hagwons. Classes of 30+ students? once a week? crappy textbooks and inflexible curriculum?

I gladly stay working in the hagwons because that's where real learning of English takes place.

A bad hagwon is hell; a good hagwon is golden.
(And good ones aren't as rare as you may think, but of course every neighbourhood also has a bad apple.)

[Zaria32]

I agree with VanIslander's statement about the flaw in English education in the public schools...most of it after teaching the alphabet is awful...

[Saxiif]

My hagwon mostly has the kids in the classroom for six hours a week plus big stacks of homework. With the right kids, a huge amount of progress gets made. These days a lot of our students read and write in English significantly better than the average American student of the same grade level.

[Yurim]

Social/cultural taxonomy. The result is that children seem to be taught to classify, which implies stratification and value judgments.

Pedagogy should incorporate effective epidemology. In non so-called "obnoxious (I've used large vocab as necessary for accurate expression and have been criticized for "bs")" terminology, how we know should be the basis for how we teach.

Given Korea's cultural history/folklore and the verbal tradition within folk songs, I'd think it is counterintuitive to learn by rote, but then again, considering I've met people who're near fluent with that approach... In case of rote memorization, students should memorize grammatical structures rather than individual sentences. Directly applicable useful phrases are like eating snack foods for dinner rather than acquiring the ingredients to an actual meal.

The real question that's been egging me is WHY there is such an impetus towards learning English. If everyone is learning numbers and "how much does this cost" that implies the point of learning English is to go purchase items in the US. What happens when everyone is so inundated with another culture that

My own problem is the fact that I can write coherently, not even with a pen, but on the keyboard, and can't interact at all unless given a definitive structure for interaction. Many students I've met can't speak, but it might just be shyness and then I don't feel it is my place to force everyone to be outspoken and penalize students who are not outgoing. People have different personality types and strengths and it is unfair to elevate a particular type of person, which returns to my problem with "taxonomy" and "classifications."

I'm not even worried about personal satisfaction. I'm concerned about what a good

Imagine games such as "Audition" built with an English language system so fun through learning is a reward in itself. Or, for instance, new developments in architecture and design that create conditions for and promote different methods of interaction. OSU's central "oval" for instance, was paved based on how frequency of path usage. One proposal was to ramp these paths; aside from aesthetic differences, how would this affect movement and communication?

An obvious question is to what extent the creations should be based on analysis of current condition and (supposed) ideal, and whether the changes should be forecasted from or introduce a new method for understanding in and of itself. For instance, I write extensively in a diary and word frequency in my diary. The process is completely self referential, distilled a visual analogy is the way Frank Stella paintings assert their canvas (brush strokes the width of canvas; spanning emotional qualities) emphasizing a form of "self actualization" through structural expression. If knowledge is not structural...

What can I say... I thought the whole point of liminal theory was to introduce an alternative to hierarchical work structures, but I don't see how it can work either. Any ideaS?

[The Grumpy Senator]

I have been at my hakwon for 3 years and plan to stay for a few more years. I am able to truely teach students at my school. We have started a more content-based learning ciriculum. I now teach Science to 3rd and 5th graders and World Cultures to a super advanced class. I interviewed and was offered a public scool job after my first year here. I turned it down when I was told that I was not allowed to expand or liven up the lessons, that I was to teach what I was told to teach....no thanks!!!!

As the Head Teacher at my school, I am able to interview and place all new students based on English abilities. I can tell a huge difference between students that have gone through our program and kids that have gone to a hakwon down the street. As a conversation-based school our kids range from being able to have a decent conversation with a native speaker to almost native speaking (the super advanced class is unbelievable).

The owner of the school just dropped some cash to put computers and projectors in ever classroom as well as installing most of our textbooks and library books into the system. This allows our teachers to use visual aids, find and use online resources in te classroom, and has reall increased the interest and entusiasm of our students.

VanIslander is 100% correct about good hakwons and bad ones. I got very lucky walking into my situation.

[ESL Milk "Everyday]

I'd just like to say that public school courses really CAN help the kids... especially if you're using the standard public school textbook.

The lower level kids are getting enough time to understand and use some very basic statements and do some very basic writing... and the kids who go to the hagwons get to take leadership roles in the class. There's opportunity to improve pronunciation, give directions, talk about geography or interests...

You can get everyone participating when it's harder to get lost... and you can keep them together, working as a group.

[TECO]

[TECO]

Also, remember that there is no such thing as a "one size fits all" pedagogy, like BERLITZ, Wall Street Instute of English, etc., would have us believe.

If there's one thing that we can all agree on in the field of TESOL and language learning is that we don't agree on much!

[Pink Freud]

If I can't say something nice...