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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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 Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
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I don't understand the discrepency. I think Gopher's curious about how they supposedly dominate South Korea in the Korean (hysterical nationalists) mind. I don't think he was chiding you.
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Umm, do people here really have that much trouble with the word "supposedly"? I'm not saying that the US, or any country, is dominating Korea. I'm saying that Korean nationalists think that Korea is being dominated by foreign powers, and that which country is supposedly doing the domination is going to vary depending on which nationalist narrative you're listening to.
Gopher asked if South Korean nationalism entails anti-Americanism. I replied that it entails the idea of some sort of foreign domination, American or otherwise. That's all I'm saying. If you want to argue against the nationalist narratives, you should probably find someone who believes them. |
Now I'm very confused.  I'll have to read this again later. I understood supposedly, at least I supposed I had, and I supposed that Gopher had understood supposedly and was just asking for more about what the supposed domination supposedly entailed. I suppose. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| catman wrote: |
| Unfortunately too many think the US started the Korean War. A sentiment I've heard more than once. |
This is the far left's position; Bruce Cumings and, to a lesser degree, William Blum. America, that is, the Truman Administration, started the Korean War in order to justify creating the military-industrial complex and the Cold War itself, another American creation.
America also started the Vietnam War and forced the Soviets to invade Afghanistan in 1979. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| I think you should re-read my post... |
Big_Bird is correct. Check out my last two sentences in that paragraph again. Just trying to apprehend how this "domination" works out in their worldview. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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A note first: The article in the OP is about officer cadets, not the enlisted men.
If it is true that the article came from '04, then it was at the time when at least some of the members of the then governing partying were putting out that line. Most of us have heard the stuff the students are taught in high school.
I don't know what the officers believe when they enter KMA, but by the time they come out, there isn't much anti-US sentiment at all.
Some portion of Korean nationalism is negative: No, we are not Chinese. No, we are not Japanese. That will sound familiar to some people.
There is a certain resentment when it comes to buying military hardware. Some will express the idea that Korea is used as a dumping ground for US-produced weapons systems and keeping the military-industrial complex going.
There is also a certain amount of resentment about having to study English with some students. They never mention the other English-speaking countries. Some students voice a fear that Korea is losing its Koreanness because of the emphasis on English. They talk about having a better filter to take the good things and rejecting the bad things. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Now I'm very confused. |
You really didn't understand? Okay. Let me try by way of analogy.
A: I hear a lot of racist people say that they don't like blacks. Does being racist entail hating blacks?
B: Well, it entails hating specific racial groups who are supposedly causing problems in society. But which racial group is the target of the hate is going to vary, depending on which racist you talk to.
Now. Do you think that person B, having made those remarks, is then obliged to defend the racist viewpoint? |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| Now. Do you think that person B, having made those remarks, is then obliged to defend the racist viewpoint? |
This is where we have crossed wires. I was pointing out to you that Gopher wasn't asking you to defend it. He was asking for more detail/information on the racist viewpoint. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Check out my last two sentences in that paragraph again. Just trying to apprehend how this "domination" works out in their worldview. |
Okay. I thought you were assuming that I shared the nationalist viewpoint, and I see now upon re-reading that I was wrong about that. My apologies.
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| How is either the United States or Japan seeking "to dominate" South Korea? How is North Korea coming off as the good guy? And how is China hardly even registered as a player? I doubt you know the answers to these questions, as they seek to understand antiAmerican South Koreans' perspectives. I thought I would throw them onto this thread in any case. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
| Now. Do you think that person B, having made those remarks, is then obliged to defend the racist viewpoint? |
This is where we have crossed wires. I was pointing out to you that Gopher wasn't asking you to defend it. He was asking for more detail/information on the racist viewpoint. |
Got it. Cheers. |
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endo
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul...my home
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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My friend served in the Korean army and he told me they were taight that South Korea had four major enemies:
#1 was North Korea
#2 was Japan
#3 was China
and
#4 was the United States  |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: '34 Percent of Army Cadets Regard US as Main Enemy� |
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| Various polls on college students or elementary school students have shown that major enemies of South Korea include North Korea, Japan and the U.S. |
Why the hell isn't CHINA on these lists?
If there's one country conspiring to take Korean land and effect control over the peninsula in the future it's the Chinese with their eyes on getting North Korea and building toward it with their Northeast Project of re-writing history to make China an essentially multiethnic state run by the Han Chinese over all sorts of other peoples, including the Han Koreans.
Koreans are blind to the real threats to their country, their culture, their economy, their way of life and their future. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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I understand this poll occurred in 2004; but the authorities did not release it until today because it is a very politically hot potato.
| On the other hand wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
| Now. Do you think that person B, having made those remarks, is then obliged to defend the racist viewpoint? |
This is where we have crossed wires. I was pointing out to you that Gopher wasn't asking you to defend it. He was asking for more detail/information on the racist viewpoint. |
Got it. Cheers. |
Actually, I was just thinking out loud, so to speak. No more no less. Apology accepted. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| There is something you should consider. The poll showed 33% think North Korea is the enemy while 34% say the US is the enemy? Of course, it is good to know 66% don't think that the US is the enemy, but having 34% saying that is extremely high. I do think there might be some in Korea who do not want to see North Korea as their enemy, because they are their brothers and from their race while Americans are not of their race, and they are outsiders. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: '34 Percent of Army Cadets Regard US as Main Enemy� |
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| "While the majority ― or 34 percent ― picked the U.S.,... |
I am more concerned about reporters, editors, and leaders of defense academies who believe 34% is a majority. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe it's a plurality? That's not much better than if a majority felt that way, though. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| Maybe it's a plurality? That's not much better than if a majority felt that way, though. |
It changes it completely. It it be only a plurality, then a majority do NOT feel that way. |
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