Korean Job Discussion Forums

[IncognitoHFX]

So I'm starting at a High School next month.

Most of you are probably aware of my hagwon problems. When I first came to Korea, I had no sweet idea what I was doing off the plane and I didn't really get much consistent help from anyone at any point. I thought that I would learn in time, and that the teaching would get easier over time. But in those first three-four months, I had no control over the behaviour in the class because I wasn't really expecting these challenges and was deeply mistaken about how to go about improving them. When I clued in, it was way too late.

So I spent the year trying my very best, giving myself tonnes of stress and anxiety all in a vein attempt to restore order in my classroom. It worked to some extent: 60% of my classes don't speak Korean anymore and 50% of them are "teachable". The rest of the classes are a constant uphill battle that I feel I had already lost in the first month.

To demonstrate what I'm talking about, my third class today went something like this:

Student #1: "OKAY BABA!!! IT'S MY DESIRE!!! DANGER, DANGER, HIGH VOLTAGE!!!"
Me: "SIT DOWN! PLEASE! OR YOU'RE OUT! SITTTTT DOWWWWWN"
Student #2: *Screams in Korean*
*All students laughs*
Me: "LAST WARNING, SIT DOWN!!!"
Student #1: "FUCCCCK!!! TEACHAAA!!! *beep* YOU!!!"
*I send the kid out of the classroom for ten minutes and yell at the rest of the kids, it does nothing*

and so on...

No matter what I do, I can't control some of these classes. A Marine Corps Drill Instructor couldn't get some of these classes to shut up. There is no discipline in any aspect of their lives, so why should I expect them to obey me, a foreign teacher, in the 80 minutes I have them each week? I suppose this is the art of teaching, something I'd probably be able to succumb to had I more time or more background coming into this situation.

But the fact is, I'm not naturally good with small children and I never managed to get control of them, especially the kids I've taught the entire year. I'd go as far as to say that I don't like children. Sure, there are some students I care about, some I really did like and some that I'll always miss, but when it comes down to it, I don't like children in general.

Anyway, that's that.

I really enjoyed teaching the older students, which is why I immediately went for a High School position when I found one. I have a technique with the older students that doesn't convey well with the younger ones. It's uh... well, just teaching actually. I can teach them and respect them, and I can talk to them in a way they can relate to, considering I'm only five, six or seven years older than the majority of them anyways.

So my question is this, what are the differences between all ages hagwon work and High School work? I know behaviour won't be a problem anymore, and I know I'll be more comfortable teaching 40 anonymous High Schoolers than I will be teaching classes of 10 Grade 3s. But what about other stressors?

I know these things vary from school to school, but is prep time generally stressful? What about office politics? What kind of demands does the school makes, and what kinds of professionalisms are expected from the English teacher (not that I'm worried about failing--I'm just trying to compare)?

What are some things I should be prepared for?

Lastly, which line of work is less stressful for those of you that have done both, public school or hagwons?

[Ruraljuror]

I started in March at a private elementary school after two years of hagwons, and I actually find they are WORSE behaved than at the hagwon. This might just be at my school, but they have far more energy during the morning and afternoon than they do at night...for some boys it is utterly and completely impossible to get them to sit still for more than 30 seconds. I would say my good classes are 75% teaching, 25% classroom management, and my bad classes are more like 50% / %50. I will say that even with their worse behavior my stress is about 10% of what it was at my hagwon, since I don't have to deal with CCTV, grading, whiny moms or a hagwon boss anymore.

I'm sure your school experience will be different from your hagwon experiences since the classes are going to be 3 times as large as your hagwon classes...I'm going to take a guess that if you have a good co-teacher, the class will be much better behaved than you are used to, and if you have a lazy co-teacher the class will be much worse behaved.

In short, it's a total crapshoot, much like every job in Korea. I have no experience working with high school students or public schools though...but I feel fairly comfortable with my crapshoot prediction.

[Lekker]

So your student is listening to Electric Six and he wants to sing you the song when he is in class? That's awesome. He is also telling you to F Yourself. You should be proud that he isn't listening to Wondergirls, or any other shit here that they pass off as music. One thing I would do with students who were interested in bad words or Fd up music was I would bring in my Ipod and let them listen something really out of touch of their comprehension, like Polish Death Metal or some Stoner Doom Metal. That would usually calm them down. Your student who is being a douche in class needs something above him to captivate him, something that he doesn't understand yet finds interest in. Maybe bring in some pictures of Pro Wrestlers from the 1980's or something like that and do some body slams on him in class. Seriously though, catch his attention with something that is more outrageous than his behavior and he will grow to respect you.

[fustiancorduroy]

I work at a foreign language high school, so my experiences differ from what yours will be, but I will say that in general the FLHS has been MUCH better than any hagwon I have worked for. The kids are hard working, polite and respectful. All of them. Try getting that in a hagwon. But then again, these are the hardest-working, most goal-oriented students in Korea, so I'll assume a class of "normal" students would differ.

Having said that, I taught part-time in an all-girl's high school last year, and even though the class wasn't graded, they still tried and paid attention. A co-ed class might be different, though.

[caniff]

OP, you really like talking about yourself, huh? Maybe you should post your autobiography here so we can all know every vital detail about what it means to be you.

You seem like a very needy person. This topic has been covered ad nauseum, and you've been here long enough to know that. Why don't you check the thousand other threads on this subject to answer your questions?

[IncognitoHFX]

[IncognitoHFX]

[crazy_arcade]

There are several types of High Schools.

At the top tier are the Science High Schools and the Foreign Language High Schools. these are elite high schools that provide streamlining for students with advanced Science or Foreign language skills.

Next would be the standard academic high schools. These can very from decent to quite good depending on the area and the administration.

Then there are technical high schools.

Finally, at the bottom are industrial/tech high schools.

Foreign Language Schools generally require teachers to have more experience and certification.

At an academic high school it is standard to teach only grade 1 and maybe some grade 2 classes. Overall students' levels might be decent but they might be shy. Your biggest obstacle might be to get them to not be quiet!

If it's a high school in the lower tier then the average student level will be super low. Nice students...but a major struggle to teach for even the most qualified of teachers.

Good luck!

[Easter Clark]

[crazy_arcade]

[Mr. BlackCat]

I've got 2 cents I'm willing to spend here:

After 2 years in hagwons I thought kids were just disrespectful in that setting. Now I work at a Elementary PS and while the beheaviour is better on many levels, there are still things that surpirse me. The students here just talk throughout the whole class and teachers do nothing about it. Not just in English class, all their classes (I hear it when I walk the halls). Kids get up, hit each other, throw things. Nothing, or at the very best, very little is done. I'm pretty shocked by this.

When students are having a conversation in class I sometimes go right up to their desks and speak louder, staring at them. On almost each occassion I've done this, the students continue speaking, but try to out-volume me (which is impossible, I have a voice that can be heard by the dead). I kind of lost it the other day and told them that they are the rudest children I've ever met. It was while a group of students was presenting a skit in front of the class. They just wouldn't shut up, like not even a little. I couldn't hear a word from the presentors and I was right next to them. My co-teachers have explained to me that it is because most families in Seoul are only having 1 child now and that one child doesn't get to talk much at home. Yeah, whatever. Korea isn't the only industrialized nation with declining birthrates. That's hardly an excuse.

I wasn't the best behaved child in my school, but if I ever ignored my teacher and tried to speak louder than her/him when I was in grade 5, I think I'd still be in the hospital for the beating I would have received from my parents after my teacher phoned them to tell them what I did. And (more old man 'When I was young' ranting...) when I was young, we only had two very short breaks, one in the morning and one in the afternoon which were usually used either making up work or doing sports. Lunch was the only time from 845am-340pm where we got to speak freely with our friends at school. Here they just have to shut their mouths for 40 minutes at a time with 10 minute breaks to talk all they want about WarCraft or whatever.

Maybe it is different now in Canada, maybe it was different 20 years ago for other people, maybe it's different now for other teachers in Korea.

Another thing that gets to me (since I'm on the subject) is the screaming. The younger kids (1,2,3) come rushing up to me and just start screaming. My office is in the 3rd grade hall, so every time I walk out I get surrounded by 100 screaming 8 year olds in an echo-y hallway. Korean teachers think this is cute. I asked them if it would be acceptable if the kids did it to them. Didn't think so.

I'm so sick of the "They're just so excited to see you" excuse. That's no reason to abandon civilization and act like wild monkeys. I'll deal with the never-ending 'Hello!'s and the incorrectly used "Nice to meet you"s 700 times a day, but I won't tolerate screaming and throwing things at me to get my attention.

Wow. Ok, that was fun. Thanks for letting me get that out. PS is waaaaaaay easier than hagwons for me, though, if that was your real question. 4 classes vs. 8 in a hagwon? Yeah.

[Atavistic]

[mnhnhyouh]

I taught for two years in Australia, and then one year at a good hagwon here. I am now in a public high school.

The high school kids are better behaved than Australian high school kids, but because of the class sizes (6 compared to 40) and ages are worse than the hagwon kids.

I see 15 one grade classes once per week.

I spent a fair bit of time last week, finally whipping them into shape. They now know my rule. I clap three times and wait five seconds. If they are still talking, I put a mark on the whiteboard. If they talk when I am talking, another mark. If they talk while other students are presenting, another mark.

After the bell, each mark means 10 seconds waiting in silence with their hands clasped on the desk in front of them. Any breaking of the silence and we do it again. One class last week had 6 minutes 20 seconds. But after 2 minutes one started talking, so we started again.

The co-teachers, because I want it, leave all this up to me, and they tell me it is a good system, not too hard, or too soft.

Does that give you an idea of what you are going into?

h

[Easter Clark]

I'll add that some teachers may tell you to institute candy and games as disciplinary tactics. My advice is to do the same things ther Korean teachers do (minus the hitting, of course). This means if a class is unruly after several warnings, make them stand with their hands in the air for 10 minutes. They'll know the routine from their other classes--just raise your arms and tell to to do it.

FWIW, I've found that drawing a dot on the board and making a troublemaker come to the front and face it for the entire class period does wonders for potential troublemakers. During the first week you may have a line of students at the board...

I've also found that making them write:

"나는 선생님과 다른 학생들, 그리고 내 자신을 존중할 것이다."
(I will respect the teacher, the other students, and myself.)

100 times is a great deterrent to bad behavior, and at the very least, will keep the offenders quiet for the class period! Tell them if they mess up again, they'll have to write 200 times and will have to explain to their next teacher why they were late to class. So far I've never had to make anyone write 200 times. You must have the Korean coteachers on your side for this to be effective though.

For the light troublemakers (like the sleepers) usually just making them stand for the duration of class is enough. Or you can start small by having them stand at their desk and if they continue talking then move on to something more harsh. If they attempt to do their work while they're standing then I usually let them sit down again.

Of course you should have a reward system in place. I give out stickers to volunteers to encourage participation. I also give out sticks of gum as prizes during competitions. I'm lucky enough to work at a school where my class is counted towards their final grade. The way I keep track of their grades is by having a chart for each class with every student's name. For each class if they are good I give them a red stamp on the chart. If they're just ok, they get a black stamp. If they're bad they get a zero. Red=10 points, black=5 points. So on my wall I have 12 charts with every student's name. The kids enjoy seeing which class is the worst and which is the best, as well as how their friends in the other classes are doing. The best class gets a party at the end of the semester.The top 3 students in each class get a prize at the end.

[Hank the Iconoclast]

I have to say that some public school classes can be a dream while others can be a nightmare. They usually vary in difficulty. I have perhaps one or two classes a week that give me white hairs. I have various methods of disciplining them and rewarding them (thanks to Dave's). My best students love me while my worst students usually despise me or outright ignore me.

I usually have the troublemakers stare at the wall and hold their hands in the air for the duration of the class. In my worst classes, I will just have kids talking the whole class. That's because my co-teacher is a very quiet and timid guy, so it is just me who is disciplining them. I get their attention by yelling like a drill sergeant. When you have a 6'3" 225lbs guy yelling at you, you definitely are going to pay attention.