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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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 Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: Pedo Priests Society's Fault Says Pope |
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http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080417091135.sjektd07&show_article=1
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Pope Benedict XVI chided Americans for a moral breakdown he said had fueled the church's child sex abuse scandal, ahead of an open-air mass before tens of thousands here Thursday.
Gates opened at Washington's new sports stadium before dawn so that an expected 48,000 people could trickle through stringent security measures to attend the mass at 10:00 am (1400 GMT).
Benedict received a rapturous White House welcome Wednesday and met privately with President George W. Bush in the Oval Office, before addressing the pedophile priest scandal that has rocked the US church in a speech to US Catholic bishops.
Thousands of people gathered at the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception late Wednesday whooped, cheered and whistled when the Popemobile pulled up outside.
The basilica's bells pealed, and inside the largest Catholic church in North America, people had no qualms about climbing onto pews to catch a glimpse as Benedict entered.
In a speech delivered after evening prayer, the pontiff berated the bishops for their poor handling of a scandal surrounding sexual abuse of children in the church.
But he urged efforts "to address the sin of abuse within the wider context of sexual mores" as well as a reassessment of "the values underpinning society."
"What does it mean to speak of child protection when pornography and violence can be viewed in so many homes through media widely available today?" the pontiff said on the first full day of his US visit.
"Children deserve to grow up with a healthy understanding of sexuality and its proper place in human relationships. They should be spared the degrading manifestations and the crude manipulation of sexuality so prevalent today."
Describing clerics who sexually abuse children as "gravely immoral,"
"It calls for a determined, collective response," he said, but did not outline any firm action that the Vatican intended to take to purge the church of pedophile priests.
The US Catholic church plunged into its worst crisis in 200 years in 2002 when the archbishop of Boston confessed he had protected a priest who had sexually abused young members of his church -- opening a floodgate of thousands of similar abuse cases around the country dating back decades.
Benedict angered victim support groups by praising the bishops' efforts to heal the wounds from the scandal.
"Five years ago, US bishops begrudgingly adopted some minimal promises on paper. There's no evidence to suggest they've had any real impact," Barbara Dorris, outreach director for the Survivors Network for those Abused by Priests (SNAP), told AFP.
"The pope continues to stand behind his men - the bishops who conceal clergy sex crimes," said another SNAP member, Joelle Casteix.
"What the pope should be doing is assuring Catholics worldwide that any bishop who shields a predator will lose his job and the priests will be swiftly defrocked," she said.
Earlier Wednesday, on the first papal visit to the White House in three decades, the Roman Catholic pontiff urged Bush to prefer diplomacy to war as a way of resolving conflicts.
But aside from mentioning the plight of Iraqi Christians, he skirted mention of the Iraq war, on which the Bush administration and Vatican do not see eye to eye.
Benedict and Bush expressed concern for Christians in war-torn Iraq, agreed on the need to create a Palestinian state, and said Lebanon must be free of undue foreign influence, according to a joint statement.
The pope urged the United States to treat immigrants humanely, and called on Americans to spurn materialism and shun secularism.
On the second day of his US trip -- his 81st birthday -- the pope drew raves more befitting a rock star than the head of the world's 1.1 billion Roman Catholics.
Under a cloudless sky, Bush welcomed Benedict with a 21-gun salute, a famed soprano singing a soaring "Lord's Prayer," and an earnest "peace be with you."
Some 13,500 people packed the mansion's South Lawn waving little Vatican and US flags, as cries of "viva il Papa!" (long live the pope) mingled with the two national anthems and two choruses of "happy birthday" for the pontiff.
Thursday, after saying mass at Nationals' Stadium, Benedict plans to meet with Jewish representatives after an inter-faith gathering at the John Paul II Cultural Center in Washington.
That, and a planned stop at a New York synagogue, appear aimed at quelling Jewish unhappiness over the revival for the Latin Rite mass of the 16th century "Prayer for Jews" in which Catholics pray for the conversion of Jews.
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What the hell is Nazinger doing going to the Bush White House? |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| The church let child abuse go on for a long time, with full knowledge of what was happening. I cannot understand why so many people come to cheer this scumbag. |
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Quack Addict
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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Joseph Ratzinger was elected head of the "Holy Office" which was re-instated by John Paul II back in 1991. This office was more commonly known in the past by it's infamous name. That being "the office of Inquisition." Ratzinger stated while in office to those priests that were caught in molestation scandals that his office would take care of things for them.
...a May 18, 2001, letter from Ratzinger written in Latin to bishops around the world, explaining that "grave" crimes such as the sexual abuse of minors would be handled by his congregation and that the proceedings of special church tribunals handling the cases were subject to "pontifical secret." -Associated Press Tuesday Sept. 20, 2005.
Ratzinger was directly involved in helping many priests escape prosecution for such awful crimes. Being the head of an office with a specific agenda to do such a work means he was "the" worst villain in this scandal that has been known to terrorize little boys in nightmarish ways for hundreds of years. It is also obvious that John Paul II was involved in this as he was the one that placed Ratzinger in position to "handle things" with the foreknowledge that later, when the heat was turned up, Ratzinger would be able to step into the office of Pope and completely escape prosecution. In a letter to all priests written by Ratzinger in Latin, and translated to English, he stated the following...
..."Crimine solicitationies" law (regarding strict secrecy in sex abuse cases) is still in effect. ...Bishops are instructed to pursue these cases `in the most secretive way... restrained by a perpetual silence... and everyone... is to observe the strictest secret which is commonly regarded as a secret of the Holy Office... under the penalty of excommunication'.
Entire letter (Latin version)
This document proves that 100% of each and every priest in the Roman Catholic church today have been sworn to secrecy by their leaders in Vatican City! This letter was sent to ALL churches as a memo from Rome. Such a memo is considered holy and very powerful in content. All priests are very much aware that to deny or ignore such a document means excommunication from the church. This is why they clam up as they do when approached on this topic. Speaking out can cause them to be unemployed and found outside the church selling scapulars in a tin cup. What's worse, Ratzinger has been doing this a lot longer then most first realized. In a British Documentary it was uncovered the following facts.
Over 20 years, the man formerly known as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger enforced a secret 1962 document on how bishops should deal with allegations of child abuse which included a code of secrecy, enforceable by excommunication, the BBC Panorama investigation said.
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He apologizes to the sheep but really he doesn't care. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think Ratzinger really understands the full drama, circumstances, and damage the scandal has done to the institution here.
BTW, Czarjorge, he served with the Hitlerjugend when all young males of his age were required to do so. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I seriously doubt that this - or any - Pope had full knowledge of what was going on. and he "berated bishops for mishandling the scandal" and called priests who sexually abused children "gravely immoral".
The organization can certainly be faulted for failure to protect kids in the first place and for illegal cover-ups, but the underlying causes of pedophilia probably do include things like child pornography and societies that let kids be exposed to degraded portrayals of sex in the mass media. |
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Quack Addict
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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When you have an organization that doesn't allow men to marry women your going to have homos. These "men" can hide behind the robe and fondle little fellas to their hearts content.
Gods plan was never for men (priests) and women (nuns) to live a life without being married. This non-sense has been going on for centuries in the Catholic Church. These Popes aren't ignorant. |
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Quack Addict
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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Traveling on his first papal journey to the United States, Pope Benedict XVI confronted the clergy sex abuse scandal, saying Tuesday that he was "deeply ashamed" of the problem and vowing to keep pedophiles out of the priesthood. ...Benedict pledged that pedophiles would not be priests in the Catholic Church.
We have this man on record in his own Latin documents (translated in English) declaring to keep the child rapists a secret in his church. He has proclaimed a false vow before God and man in this article! We know he is lying as well when he declares he is "deeply ashamed." His known works to protect and hide these child rapists for decades have found him out. The Pope also stated in the article that he would "pledge" to keep child rapists out of his church. Yet more priests are still being arrested since he became pope! |
The more things change the more they stay the same. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Being from Boston where this shit initially came to light in the U.S, I can attest that 'The Church' lost alot of their flock in that area.
The Catholic Church. PFFTTTTT...........pft!
And he wants to blame the victim (the U.S.). He should be on the first plane out. |
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endo
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul...my home
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
Well, I seriously doubt that this - or any - Pope had full knowledge of what was going on. and he "berated bishops for mishandling the scandal" and called priests who sexually abused children "gravely immoral".
The organization can certainly be faulted for failure to protect kids in the first place and for illegal cover-ups, but the underlying causes of pedophilia probably do include things like child pornography and societies that let kids be exposed to degraded portrayals of sex in the mass media. |
So this kind of stuff didn't exist 200 years ago, correct? |
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nicholas_chiasson
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Location: Samcheok
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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Interestingly I have an inside source on all this, take it or leave it.
-The Vatican since the Departure/excommunication of Archbishop Lefevre and his SSPX thing, has feared schism above all else. They have back off vs. the demands of the French Bishops association, and have also been weak in the US. The American Conference of Bishops has at times openly gone against Church teaching and positions many many times.
-Although it is CLEAR a TINY MINORITY of Bishops will bend over backwards to protect and hide their 'pedo priests' they are, unfortunately, very powerful ones with in the conference. Now here is where it gets ugly...
-The Catholic Church is arguing over the issue of gay priests. Almost ALL cases of abuse in the church are of boys. Why? Ok alter boy thing aside, most of this abuses have been linked to priests who were ordained in 'gay' friendly dioceses. Now are all gay people pedophiles? No. Are most no? Are gay people who want a job that puts them around young boys pedophiles? er....maybe.
-Anyway, why would a Bishop want to move around a disaster like a child molesting Priest? Because he has serious dirt on his Bishop. In many cases, sexual favors are involved.
-Bishops who have mentioned this are screamed at by the media, and gay rights groups for this 'gay conspiracy' theory. At the same time, certain Bishops have flat out said 'No Gay Priests'.
-The last Pope was quite aware of this problem, but soft pedaled it because he feared the resulting back lash from the American Conference of Bishops. Benedict XVI is a less 'hesitant' pope. He knows his pontificate will be short, and would rather be famous for a few, decisive strokes. He will move against the 'gay clique' but only in private. In public it would be a disaster for church PR. It is very similar to the Nazis in World War II. THe homosexual tendencies of the Nazi Leadership was well known. A certain anti-social predatory type. Of course to argue that even most homosexuals are in this category would be insane, but to deny this group exists is not in our best interests.
Alsohttp://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/16/us/nationalspecial2/15cnd-pope.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin |
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endo
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul...my home
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| nicholas_chiasson wrote: |
| -The Catholic Church is arguing over the issue of gay priests. Almost ALL cases of abuse in the church are of boys. Why? Ok alter boy thing aside, most of this abuses have been linked to priests who were ordained in 'gay' friendly dioceses. Now are all gay people pedophiles? No. Are most no? Are gay people who want a job that puts them around young boys pedophiles? er....maybe. |
Wait a minute, are you suggesting that certain diocies came under the control of gay bishops who in tern ordaned priests that were also homosexual? Kind of like a club?
Wow, I never heard that theory before.
I guess I can understand why a gay male might enter the priesthood. They probably grew up in a religious household and "comming out" was likely not an option for them.
So they kept their homosexuality a secret and as a result felt an enormous amount of shame and guilt.
In order to cure this, some young gay men would of looked to the proesthood as an outlet. An institution where they could skirt away from marriage and also possibly look to God or serve God as a way to supress their sexual desires.
This supression unfortunately needed to be released and what better way to do so than with a young teenage alter boy whome the priests had an enormous amount of influence and control over. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| I guess I can understand why a gay male might enter the priesthood. |
Or the military. Traditionally all male. Officers in dominant relationships with other males. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:18 am Post subject: |
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pedophilia is not related to homosexuality.
It is nothing to do with gay priests. They are pedophiles who were sheltered by bishops because of a twisted brand of loyalty. Not because they were or were not homosexual.
A gay man would enter the priesthood for the same reason a straight man would.
BECAUSE HE BELIEVES IN GOD AND BELIEVES GOD TOLD HIM TO JOIN THE PRIESTHOOD.
I find it telling that when a swim coach abuses his girl students, we don;t mention his hetrosexuality as somehow being a factor. He is a pedophile, plain and simple. However when it is boys...well obviously its those frustrated gays. Homophobia..plain and simple. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| nicholas_chiasson wrote: |
| Almost ALL cases of abuse in the church are of boys. Why? |
Because most alter boys are boys?
Anyway I believe between 1/3 and 1/2 of estimated victims are female. These numbers are hard to put together because of the obvious secrecy, shame and cover ups that surround clergy abuse. SNAP(Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests) claims half it's members to be female. To say "almost all" is far from accurate. This also panders to a homophobic view of gays in the priesthood as the rest of your post dives into. "Take it, or leave it", I'll leave till you can back it up.
http://faculty.uml.edu/sgallagher/girls1.htm
For more on the Church's 'Gay Purge'.
http://www.snapnetwork.org/priest_stories/the_gay_purge.htm
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| The Vatican has come up with a simple solution to the Catholic Church's recent sex scandal: Eliminate gay priests. |
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That answer may make sense to many, since the sex cases that have received the most attention have involved priests who have molested young boys. And turning the scandals into a "gay" issue allows the church to suggest that it, too, is a victim in the scandal. Rather than being responsible for pedophile priests, the church can portray itself as victimized by gays who have sneaked into the priesthood. But it blurs a central fact at the heart of the controversy: No one, including the church itself, seems to know exactly how big the sex scandal really is, who it involves or what role homosexuality plays in child abuse by priests.
At least one well-known clinical psychologist says he believes the victims are much more likely to be girls and women.
"There are far more heterosexual cases than homosexual," says Gary Schoener, a clinical psychologist who has been diagnosing and treating clergy abuse for 28 years. "The Vatican damn well knows that, and the leadership in the American church knows that." |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| "Children deserve to grow up with a healthy understanding of sexuality and its proper place in human relationships. They should be spared the degrading manifestations and the crude manipulation of sexuality so prevalent today." |
Someone ought to suggest to the Pope it should be determined how much of the Church's own lack of understanding of human sexuality contributed to the scandal.
| JMO wrote: |
pedophilia is not related to homosexuality.
It is nothing to do with gay priests. They are pedophiles who were sheltered by bishops because of a twisted brand of loyalty. Not because they were or were not homosexual.
...
I find it telling that when a swim coach abuses his girl students, we don;t mention his hetrosexuality as somehow being a factor. He is a pedophile, plain and simple. However when it is boys...well obviously its those frustrated gays. Homophobia..plain and simple. |
You are, at best, only half right. Homosexual pedophilia is related to homosexuality just as heterosexuality is related to heterosexual pedophilia.
In any event, the Church scandal is wrongly referred to as a "pedophilia" scandal since less than 10% of the identified victims were children at the time the alleged abuse occurred. Most were teenagers, and hence it is mostly an "ephebophilia" scandal.
| Rteacher wrote: |
| ...but the underlying causes of pedophilia probably do include things like child pornography and societies that let kids be exposed to degraded portrayals of sex in the mass media. |
Pornography does not cause sexual orientation. To demonstrate this, the late Father of Sexology and Johns Hopkins Professor Emeritus of Psychiatry and Pediatrics John Money gave the following example: If you were locked in a room for 24 hours and forced to watch coprophilic pornography, and did not have a coprophilic predisposition to begin with, you would not walk out the next day and start eating shit sandwiches. |
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