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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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Bibbitybop

Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:24 am Post subject: |
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What??????? You mean Bush made that shit up? Well, I for one am now ready to leave Iraq, I thought we were trying to win over their hearts and minds over there. |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:51 am Post subject: |
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"GIVE ME BACK MY FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!"
Oh, sorry, got my wires crossed between Braveheart and Ransom. |
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stillnotking

Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Location: Oregon, USA
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:18 am Post subject: |
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Americans are always shocked to discover that the rest of the world doesn't actually want to be "liberated" by us. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:39 am Post subject: |
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Bush was wrong when he said Al Qaeda attacked the US cause they hate our freedoms.
but the anti war movement is every bit as clueless.
Al Qaeda fights for the Caliphate.
The Bathists , and the Khomeni followers fight to control or conquer the mideast.
Anyone ever notice that the mideast street never said anything when Saddam gassed MUSLIM kurds, and nothing was said when Haffaz Assad destroyed the city of Hama killing 20,000 in 2 weeks? Where were the protests when Khomeni's fatwa killed 30,000 Iranians in 1988 alone? Bin Laden killed muslims lots of them in Afghanistan. What religion was the Northern alliance?
Here is left wing writer Robert Fisk who I don't agree with but he is correct here.
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As usual in the Arab world, everyone knew what was happening and no one said a thing. The British and American pilots flying the pointless southern "no-fly" zone � allegedly to protect Iraq's minorities � could clearly see the receding waters of the Marsh. The Arab regimes remained silent. Neither Mubarak nor Arafat nor Assad nor Fahd uttered the mildest word of criticism, any more than they did when the Kurds were gassed. |
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0519-02.htm
Here is what Bin Laden complains about.
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One of the theses of his most recent book, Imperial Hubris, a New York Times bestseller, was that from bin Laden's perspective, the U.S. was attacked on 9/11 and will continue to be attacked because of a number of grievances against the U.S. and other western countries. These grievances include: U.S. support of Israel and its indifference to the Palestinians, presence of U.S. and western troops on the Arabian Peninsula, occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan by the U.S. and its allies, the U.S. support of countries that oppress Muslims (such as Russia, India and China), U.S. political pressure on Arab states to keep oil prices low and U.S. support for tyrannical governments. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Scheuer
The US is in Afghanistan why?
Does the US support Russia India or China's oppression of muslims?
US support for Tyranical mideast governments?
what does that supposed to mean? Besides All mideast governments are tyranical. Half of them are hostile to the US.
Are oil prices low?
Wait till the day that Bin Laden claims that alternative energy is a plot by the west.
The real reason for terror is that mideast regimes and elties teach hate and incite violence as a political and military tactic.
In the 1990s 70,000 trained in Al Qaeda /Jihad camps in Afghanistan.
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Al-Qaeda camps 'trained 70,000'
Thousands are said to have joined al-Qaeda camps in Afghanistan
Some 70,000 people received weapons training and religious instruction in al-Qaeda camps, German police say.
The claim came at the retrial of Mounir al-Motassadek, a Moroccan man accused of involvement in the 9/11 attacks, which were partly planned in Germany.
A German police officer told the court recruits at the camps were taught they had a duty to kill US citizens. |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4146969.stm
This is while the US was protecting muslims in Kurdistan from Saddam Muslims in Kosovo from Slobidan and while the US was trying to help muslims in Somalia. This was also while the US was trying to bring the Israeli and Palestinian side together.
Arafat turned down Bill Clintons offer. I am only not talking about August 2000 I'm talking about December 2000 as well.
Here is the problem :
The Bathists , the Khomeni followers and the Al Qaedists are out to get the US. Let them give up their war.
Case closed. |
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Nowhere Man

Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:17 am Post subject: ... |
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Anyone ever notice that the mideast street never said anything when Saddam gassed MUSLIM kurds, and nothing was said when Haffaz Assad destroyed the city of Hama killing 20,000 in 2 weeks? Where were the protests when Khomeni's fatwa killed 30,000 Iranians in 1988 alone? |
What did China say about the gassing of the Kurds? What did Brazil say? Did the US mention in their coverage that they were providing Saddam with chemical agents to gas people?
In the pre-Internet age of 1988, I'm not sure how you're so sure other Arabs didn't condemn such attacks.
We do have Arab allies. They're not all Khomeini lovers and dreaming of a Caliphate.
Your cookie-cutter treatment of the Middle East alienates both allies and people who are on the fence.
You accuse people of wanting the US to lose while you openly appear to be saying that you want Arabs to lose.
Saying that the US invaded Iraq to send a message to the Saudis suggests that the US might, at any point, further attack the Middle east to send a further message.
Is there any parameter to determine whether the Saudis "got the message"?
What was the message again? I think it was: We don't need you to have bases in the Middle East.
I, personally, don't think that it should be a US goal to have bases in the Middle East.
I don't want China to have bases there, so I don't think it should be a US goal to have bases there. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:28 am Post subject: Re: ... |
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[quote="Nowhere Man"]
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Anyone ever notice that the mideast street never said anything when Saddam gassed MUSLIM kurds, and nothing was said when Haffaz Assad destroyed the city of Hama killing 20,000 in 2 weeks? Where were the protests when Khomeni's fatwa killed 30,000 Iranians in 1988 alone? |
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What did China say about the gassing of the Kurds? What did Brazil say? Did the US mention in their coverage that they were providing Saddam with chemical agents to gas people? |
But the US is condemed in the mideast for its policies when far worse goes on for far more sinister reasons without comment.
In the 1980s Iran was out to get the US. Khomeni was a fascist bigot like Saddam.
The US also supported Stalin against Hitler
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In the pre-Internet age of 1988, I'm not sure how you're so sure other Arabs didn't condemn such attacks. |
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As usual in the Arab world, everyone knew what was happening and no one said a thing. The British and American pilots flying the pointless southern "no-fly" zone � allegedly to protect Iraq's minorities � could clearly see the receding waters of the Marsh. The Arab regimes remained silent. Neither Mubarak nor Arafat nor Assad nor Fahd uttered the mildest word of criticism, any more than they did when the Kurds were gassed. |
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0519-02.htm
.
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We do have Arab allies. They're not all Khomeini lovers and dreaming of a Caliphate. |
Sure. but the reason for opinons of the US is cause mideast regimes and elites incite hate against the US.
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Your cookie-cutter treatment of the Middle East alienates both allies and people who are on the fence. |
Well the fact is the regimes there are what they are and they say what they say.
Tell us about mideast regimes do you know of anyone that is not a police state?
If you have any questions:
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Behind Algeria, on a score of 110.55, come North Korea, Burma, Indonesia, Libya, Colombia, Syria, Iraq, Yugoslavia and China. Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan and Nigeria follow closely. The United Kingdom comes 141st; a good score on a global basis but not so admirable when compared with other rich, industrialised countries - we are seventh out of 23. |
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It scores 10 out of 10 on denial of majority rights because of gassing the Kurds.
A country with a wretched record of human rights abuse could score a maximum total of 190. Saddam Hussein's Iraq proves the winner of the unmodified list - which measures human rights abuses outside of their economic context - with an unadjusted score of 155. |
http://www.algeria-watch.org/mrv/mrvrap/observe4.htm
Many of the very worst human rights abusers in the world are in the mideast.
It is not an arab thing but it is a political thing.
So what is your take on the regime of Saddam ? How about Khomeni? Khaddafy? Assad? The Taliban?
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You accuse people of wanting the US to lose while you openly appear to be saying that you want Arabs to lose. |
It is not an
I don't want the arabs or muslims to lose. I want the anti US elements in the region to give up their war. I don't care about the religon or the nationality.
Why is it a bad thing if the Khomeni followers , the Al Qaedists and the Bathists lose anyway? What do they fight for?
In fact it is justice when Khoemeni followers , Al Qaedists and Bathists lose.
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Saying that the US invaded Iraq to send a message to the Saudis suggests that the US might, at any point, further attack the Middle east to send a further message. |
Well if the regimes and elties stop inciting violence and teaching hate and allowing or even helpin terror groups then there won't be a problem.
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]Is there any parameter to determine whether the Saudis "got the message"? |
The US will know it when it sees it. Just like the US knew it got the advantage in the cold war with out any parameters.
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What was the message again? I think it was: We don't need you to have bases in the Middle East. |
Explain more
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I, personally, don't think that it should be a US goal to have bases in the Middle East. |
No it should be a goal to get mideast regimes and groups and elites to give up their war.
Whatever it takes is ok.
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I don't want China to have bases there, so I don't think it should be a US goal to have bases there. |
The goal ought to be persuding or forcing the enemy to give up its war. |
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Nowhere Man

Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: |
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But the US is condemed in the mideast for its policies when far worse goes on without comment.
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Zzzz. Worse than gassing Kurds with US-supplied chemicals?
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Well I got the quote of Robert Fisk. |
OK...
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Sure. but the reason for opinons of the US is cause mideast regimes and elites incite hate against the US.
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Do all of them?
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Well the fact is the regimes there are what they are and they say what they say. |
So, they all want to destroy Israel?
Note: If they all don't, you're alienating the ones that don't.
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I don't want the arabs to lose. I want the anti US elements in the region to give up their war. |
OK, you attract more flies with sugar than vinegar.
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]Is there any parameter to determine whether the Saudis "got the message"?
The US will know it when it sees it. |
So, no.
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What was the message again? I think it was: We don't need you to have bases in the Middle East.
Explain more |
No, you explain. You insist that the reason for the Iraq War was to send a message to the Saudis. Where are all those stratfor posts now?
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The goal ought to be forcing the enemy to give up its war. |
Yup. And what I say is that you better decide who the enemy is before you continue with your jibber-jab. You're prolonging tensions via your xenophobia.
Not that anyone on this message board achieves anything, but, supposing we do,you're demonizing the people you want on your side. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Zzzz. Worse than gassing Kurds with US-supplied chemicals? |
U miss the point. Saddam was not condemed for doing so. "The mideast street" never held it against him.
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OK, you attract more flies with sugar than vinegar. |
During the 90's the US protected muslims in Kurdistan from Saddam and muslims in Kosovo from Slobidan. The US helped muslims in Somalia.
During that time 70,000 trained in Al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan.
What was the problem then?
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No, you explain. You insist that the reason for the Iraq War was to send a message to the Saudis. Where are all those stratfor posts now? |
Bases can be part of the equation but more will probably be needed.
If by chance want to know what I mean by more :
would like to see the US try these things.
1) Bring back the Clinton mideast plan. ( In fact make Bill Clinton US envoy to the middle east. That way he won't make trouble back home. )
2) Don't attack Iran- not now anyway.
3) Talk to Iran and Syria.
4) Tax imported oil , raise the gas tax
5) Invest in alternative energy , clean coal , nuclear power, better exploration methods with the same effort that the US put in to winning WW II.
6) Pressure the Europeans to , in fact apply horrible pressure to Europe to list Hezzbollah as a terror group.
7) Make the Patriot act permanent.
8 ) Introduce a national ID card like Korea has
9) Set up permanent US military bases in the Kurdish areas.
10) End the CIA ban on assassinations. From now on anyone of note who calls for holy war against the US is legitmate target for assassination. Anyone of note who supports Al Qaeda is a legitmate target for assassination.
11) announce that the US will withdraw from the NPT treaty if Iran tests a nuclear bomb.
12) Do NOT agree to any treaty that limits the deployment of space weapons.
13 ) Fully invest in the next generation of weapon systems.
If the US were to do the above what would the results be? I would bet you all that the US would be in a much better strategic situation than now.
Maybe more would need to be done later - in the end it has to be whatever it takes - but the above would be a start.
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Yup. And what I say is that you better decide who the enemy is before you continue with your jibber-jab. You're prolonging tensions via your xenophobia. |
The enemy is the Bathists , the Khomeni followers and the Al Qaedists.
Hating them is not xenophobia. It is no different than hating the Klan.
Tell us how exactly is it xenophobia?
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Not that anyone on this message board achieves anything, but, supposing we do,you're demonizing the people you want on your side. |
I am not demonizing arabs or muslims. No more than telling the truth about the Soviet regime demonized Russians. Or telling the truth about the Klan demonized Americans or Caucasians.
I don't mind if there is a mosque in my neighborhood.
However what is wrong with telling the truth about someone who follows the agenda of Saddam Hussein, Khomeni , Khaddfay or Bin Laden.
A bathist , a Khomeni follower or an Al Qaedist is no different than a Klansman.
Why ought anyone not hate them? |
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Nowhere Man

Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject: ... |
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Zzzz. Worse than gassing Kurds with US-supplied chemicals?
U miss the point. Saddam was not condemed for doing so. "The mideast street" never held it against him.
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Yeah, are you sure about that or are you just saying that now?
How many on Western Civ Street condemned the US for supplying the chemicals to do so?
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OK, you attract more flies with sugar than vinegar.
During the 90's the US protected muslims in Kurdistan from Saddam and muslims in Kosovo from Slobidan. The US helped muslims in Somalia.
During that time 70,000 trained in Al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan. |
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What was the problem then? |
So, you're laying the blame of 70,000 people on millions, millions who you don't want trouble with, right?
What is your 70,000 number based on?
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No, you explain. You insist that the reason for the Iraq War was to send a message to the Saudis. Where are all those stratfor posts now?
Bases can be part of the equation but more will probably be needed. |
Righty right. More will probably be needed, eh? China probably sees the need to send a similar message. You down with Chinese bases in the Middle East?
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If by chance want to know what I mean by more :
would like to see the US try these things. |
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with those proposals.
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Yup. And what I say is that you better decide who the enemy is before you continue with your jibber-jab. You're prolonging tensions via your xenophobia.
The enemy is the Bathists , the Khomeni followers and the Al Qaedists.
Hating them is not xenophobia. It is no different than hating the Klan.
Tell us how exactly is it xenophobia? |
Can't be sure, but I don't believe you're a Muslim.
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Not that anyone on this message board achieves anything, but, supposing we do,you're demonizing the people you want on your side.
I am not demonizing arabs or muslims. No more than telling the truth about the Soviet regime demonized Russians. Or telling the truth about the Klan demonized Americans or Caucasians. |
The Soviet Union was a bloc working together. Islam is a religion. If you think Islam is the same as the Soviet Union, it's a waste of time to try and explain how it it isn't.
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I don't mind if there is a mosque in my neighborhood.
However what is wrong with telling the truth about someone who follows the agenda of Saddam Hussein, Khomeni , Khaddfay or Bin Laden.
A bathist , a Khomeni follower or an Al Qaedist is no different than a Klansman. |
Good. You go to your local mosque and explain that to them. Follow it up by going up to the black people in your neighborhood and telling them that you're down with them unless they're Black Panthers or Malcolm X lovers.
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Why ought anyone not hate them? |
Who? Arab Street? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
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[quote="Nowhere Man"]
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Zzzz. Worse than gassing Kurds with US-supplied chemicals?
U miss the point. Saddam was not condemed for doing so. "The mideast street" never held it against him.
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Yeah, are you sure about that or are you just saying that now? |
Saddam had a lot of support in the mideast.
I showed the article what do you have that says otherwise.
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How many on Western Civ Street condemned the US for supplying the chemicals to do so? |
some but at the same time Khoemi and Hizzbollah were after the US . and Khomeni was ought to conquer the mideast.
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So, you're laying the blame of 70,000 people on millions, millions who you don't want trouble with, right?
What is your 70,000 number based on? |
I am blaming that on mideast regimes and elites. Not on millions.
the number 70,000 is based on the BBC article above.
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Righty right. More will probably be needed, eh? China probably sees the need to send a similar message. You down with Chinese bases in the Middle East? |
If they under attack by groups in the mideast.
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Can't be sure, but I don't believe you're a Muslim. |
How is it Xenophobia? It is no more Xenophobia than hating the Klan.
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The Soviet Union was a bloc working together. Islam is a religion. If you think Islam is the same as the Soviet Union, it's a waste of time to try and explain how it it isn't. |
No I think the Bathists , the Khomeni followers and the Al Qaedists are much like like the enemy in WW II and during the cold war.
Bathists , Khomeni followers and Al Qaedists are Klansman.
If they have too much power in the mideast then the mideast ought to change . Or at least get them give up their war.
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Good. You go to your local mosque and explain that to them. Follow it up by going up to the black people in your neighborhood and telling them that you're down with them unless they're Black Panthers or Malcolm X lovers. |
Well if there was a church that was in love with the KKK then I would tell them that to .
It seems like you would have told people in WW II don't go to Germany and tell them Hitler is a creep.
If someone follows fascism then they are accountable. Germany was accountable when Hitler was in power. Russia was acountable when the communists ruled.
The Bathists , the Khomeni followers and the Al Qaedists ought to give up there war and if they don't want to then anything and everything the US does to force them to is okay. The US doesn't have to accept their war.
It is wrong to steal oil. It is not wrong to force the enemy to give up their war.
Forcing Bathists, Khomeni followers and Al Qaedists to quit their war is justice.
Anyway at your local mosque there are probably lots of people that fled mideast countires that are hostile to the US.
The Kurds are muslims and they don't like Khomeni or Saddam or Bin Laden .
It is not a religous problem it is a problem of ideology.
No those who follow Khomeni , the Bathists or Al Qaeda.
Why ought it be otherwise? |
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Nowhere Man

Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject: ... |
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Yes, Joo. Go tell the black ppl about how not to hate.
Then, go tell the Muslims how not to hate.
I'm not going to argue any of your BS with you. I'm not a Muslim, ok?
Maybe one person on this board is a Muslim.
My concept is this: Go tell the Muslims what you think.
Some of them are Khomeini-lovers; don't get me wrong. I have yet to meet those people.
But I'm sure that when you explain to them that Mideast Street didn't say jack about Saddam's US-supplied campaign of chemical terror, they're gonna go, "Oh, good point mate, I never thought about that. Praise god for your western buttocks coming and civilizing my hostile ways."
That's really the way to have peace on earth. We need more people to talk down to others... |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
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[quote="Nowhere Man"]Yes
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, Joo. Go tell the black ppl about how not to hate. |
I
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Then, go tell the Muslims how not to hate. |
You keep trying to make this into a religious war against muslims. It is not.
The US doesn't have a good reason to hate muslims , the US does have a good reason to hate Bathists , Khomeni lovers and Al Qaedists.
Just as there is a good reason to hate the Klan there is is a good reason to hate Bathists , Khomeni lovers and Al Qaedists.
They ought to give up their war. If they can't then whatever the US doesn't to force them to is justified.
You don' t think the US ought to just accept their war do you?
By the way these are is a Khomeni lovers.
This is what they look like.
They ought to give up their war.
they don't have a good reason for their ideology
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I'm not going to argue any of your BS with you. I'm not a Muslim, ok? |
I don't care about your religion
Anyway what can't be avoided here is that you are going to argue your BS which really is BS.
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But I'm sure that when you explain to them that Mideast Street didn't say jack about Saddam's US-supplied campaign of chemical terror, they're gonna go, "Oh, good point mate, I never thought about that. Praise god for your western buttocks coming and civilizing my hostile ways." |
The US didn't give Saddam Chemicals so he could kill Kurds.
The US allowed him to buy them so he could fight Iran.
Iran was out to get the US and Iran was ought spread its revolution thoughout the mideast. . What the US did was at least understandable.
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That's really the way to have peace on earth. We need more people to talk down to others... |
Anyway as there is a difference between hating the Klan and the hate the Klan practices there is a difference between hating Bathists, Khomeni lovers and Al Qaedists and the hate that they practice.
More than that they just don't have a right to their war.
Forcing them to give up their war is justice. Period.
Appeasement didn't work in World War II nor did it work in the cold war. |
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bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
Al Qaeda fights for the Caliphate.
The Bathists , and the Khomeni followers fight to control or conquer the mideast. |
Got a link?
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
Anyone ever notice that the mideast street never said anything when Saddam gassed MUSLIM kurds, and nothing was said when Haffaz Assad destroyed the city of Hama killing 20,000 in 2 weeks? Where were the protests when Khomeni's fatwa killed 30,000 Iranians in 1988 alone? Bin Laden killed muslims lots of them in Afghanistan. What religion was the Northern alliance? |
Why is any of this your business?
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
Here is what Bin Laden complains about.
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One of the theses of his most recent book, Imperial Hubris, a New York Times bestseller, was that from bin Laden's perspective, the U.S. was attacked on 9/11 and will continue to be attacked because of a number of grievances against the U.S. and other western countries. These grievances include: U.S. support of Israel and its indifference to the Palestinians, presence of U.S. and western troops on the Arabian Peninsula, occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan by the U.S. and its allies, the U.S. support of countries that oppress Muslims (such as Russia, India and China), U.S. political pressure on Arab states to keep oil prices low and U.S. support for tyrannical governments. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Scheuer |
Why should we trust a Wikipedia article about what Scheuer reports that bin Laden complains about, i.e. fourth-hand information? |
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Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
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Nowhere Man wrote: |
Maybe one person on this board is a Muslim.
My concept is this: Go tell the Muslims what you think. |
There are muslims who read this board. I've had a couple of Brit muslims spontaneoulsy pm me occasionally to let me know their relief that not everyone here was going insane with Islamophobia. They often read this forum, but tended to stick to posting on the other forums. I'm assuming that they were just the tip of the iceberg. And then there is always fromtheuk. |
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