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Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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phaedrus
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: I'm comin' to get ya.
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 Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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Hagwons are crazy money making rackets.
The source of them is Korean parents wanting English lessons. They want these for a low price, or the lowest possible price. The second source is a business person wanting to get rich. They want to pay employees as little as possible.
Hagwons need naive people to work for them. If you know about legalities such as pension or taxes, or if you know about workload etc or even feel confident enough in Korea to quit, you are a headache to them. Hagwons do take advantage of the fact that newbies don't know about Korea and everything is a mystery.
We should all try to get articles in our university newspapers about what to ask for in Korea. Maybe it would help give the teaching profession in Korea some professionalism at the hagwon level. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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I mean, is their any way to avoid getting sc**wed over in Korea? i thought I'd found a decent boss this time but now theres rumours that hes been pocketing the waegooks pension contributions... is there no end to it? Is it possible to find an honest employer in this country at all????
Can you win?? Or is the only alternative to fight them every day, threaten, manipulate, and check mate your whole way through your stay in Korea???? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: What's Up With Korean Hagwons??? |
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| princess wrote: |
| What is their problem? Why does a person with 2 years experience have soooo much trouble finding a job? Why is that a place makes you believe they are hiring you by saying they will send you a contract and then you never hear another word out of them? I think it is pretty crappy to get someone's hopes up about a job only to let them down. Now wonder there is so much suicide in the world these days!!! They can't even answer a simple e-mail as to whether or not your picture was received. |
I don't know why people are saying times are so hard. I have three years experience in Korea and I had five job offers (25-30 hours, 2.0 mil) in three days. Currently I've narrowed it down to two schools and should be working again by Monday. Not all hakwons want inexperienced people. One of my possible future bosses is interested in me, precisely because I have experience. He turned down four other applications because they had none. I have to agree princess, that it might have something to do with your ex-boss. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
I mean, is their any way to avoid getting sc**wed over in Korea? i thought I'd found a decent boss this time but now theres rumours that hes been pocketing the waegooks pension contributions... is there no end to it? Is it possible to find an honest employer in this country at all????
Can you win?? Or is the only alternative to fight them every day, threaten, manipulate, and check mate your whole way through your stay in Korea???? |
Just be professional and upfront about what you want at the interview. Too many teachers (not talking about you, Mr rapier) just want a job and are too quick to sign a bad contract. Establish yourself as someone who won't be pushed around (in a professional manner, no tantrums) and you should have a pleasant stay in Korea. |
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VincentVulgati
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
I mean, is their any way to avoid getting sc**wed over in Korea? i thought I'd found a decent boss this time but now theres rumours that hes been pocketing the waegooks pension contributions... is there no end to it? Is it possible to find an honest employer in this country at all????
Can you win?? Or is the only alternative to fight them every day, threaten, manipulate, and check mate your whole way through your stay in Korea???? |
Does this never happen in North America? I've had a few bosses in Canada who paid me late, tried to under pay me, cheated on their (and my) taxes, changed my schedule at the last minute, wouldn't let me know everything that was going on, et cetera. There wasn't much I could do about a lot of this unless I wanted to drop $200 - $300 an hour for a lawyer.
If you want to be paid on time every time, know exactly what's going on, and have everyone follow every rule to the "T," then you should take a job at Sarbucks, or in some bureaucracy -- work at a bank, or in a governmnet job, for instance.
I'm not appologizing for other people's shady behaviour, but the fact is that it is universal. Koreans' biggest problem is that they're only human. It seems like a lot of people on this board think that Koreans should be saints -- I mean, its not like Canadians or Americans ever scr*w one another over; and I'm sure no foreigners in North America have ever been taken advantage of.
People have been scr*wing eachother over since forever. We're all in very vulnerable positions. Tread lightly and be ready for anything.
VV |
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crazylemongirl
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Location: almost there...
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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I put a few feelers out to see how the job market is. I got an offer of 2.5 mil for doing the same sort of hours I'm doing now. The thing is I will settle for less money for less hours.
I think as with job hunting back home employers are looking for reasons not to hire you. Some ideas that someone passed down to me were: make sure your references are people who will make you look good, a cheesy photo (preferably you with a kid looking happy), your documents ready to go etc.
CLG |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 2:35 am Post subject: |
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Urban myth, vincent Vulgati: Its a vicious circle: Take sh*t at one job. Quit. Take a different kind of sh*t at another job.
This is my 3rd hakwon in Korea. my two previous ones, I quit or walked out over disagreements. I spent all my time annoyed or in conflict with the boss about something... I'm so over it all, I just want to be content with what I have, and have good work relationships, in a good environment, and do a good job. Which is why I'm now avoiding conflict totally, and rationalising everything that is wrong. Formerly I would be enraged, now I sort of expect it.. and just can't be bothered fighting any more. I just want to be happy!!! Arghhh!
But there are these constant grey areas where you feel slighted/ cheated: for example- I was told my boss would pay for my visa run to Osaka. He paid for the flight, yes, but then didn't refund me the 100.000+ I spent running around Osaka because I had no receipts. i don't care about the money, its just the feeling that they've pulled a sly one on you.
Its almost as if to remain in Korea, you have to decide on a tolerable level of sh*t that you're going to take. |
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OiGirl
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Hoke-y-gun
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| VincentVulgati wrote: |
Does this never happen in North America? I've had a few bosses in Canada who paid me late, tried to under pay me, cheated on their (and my) taxes, changed my schedule at the last minute, wouldn't let me know everything that was going on, et cetera. There wasn't much I could do about a lot of this unless I wanted to drop $200 - $300 an hour for a lawyer.
If you want to be paid on time every time, know exactly what's going on, and have everyone follow every rule to the "T," then you should take a job at Sarbucks, or in some bureaucracy -- work at a bank, or in a governmnet job, for instance.
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When I have worked at public schools in the US, I was ALWAYS paid on time! Actually, the last business day of the month, so for example in November and December, where there is a holiday and some vacation time at the end of the month, I was paid very early. We also got our bonuses and supplements when promised. The only thing that was ever late was that we could never get our yearly raise until the state legislature passed the budget, which often happened after school started.
edited for typing errors |
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princess
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: soul of Asia
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| How come some dude was on here saying he has been fired at 10 hagwons and he still finds jobs? Hmmm..now that is a real mystery!!! |
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waterbaby
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Location: Baking Gord a Cheescake pie
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| VincentVulgati wrote: |
| rapier wrote: |
I mean, is their any way to avoid getting sc**wed over in Korea? i thought I'd found a decent boss this time but now theres rumours that hes been pocketing the waegooks pension contributions... is there no end to it? Is it possible to find an honest employer in this country at all????
Can you win?? Or is the only alternative to fight them every day, threaten, manipulate, and check mate your whole way through your stay in Korea???? |
Does this never happen in North America? I've had a few bosses in Canada who paid me late, tried to under pay me, cheated on their (and my) taxes, changed my schedule at the last minute, wouldn't let me know everything that was going on, et cetera. There wasn't much I could do about a lot of this unless I wanted to drop $200 - $300 an hour for a lawyer. |
But the thing is, in Canada (or another English speaking country) you're not severely disadvantaged by not being able to communicate fluently to find avenues of recourse.
I know that if this sort of thing happened to me in Australia, I'd be able to find out where to go, who to speak to in about five minutes. In Korea, not knowing the system or the language well really hinders this process. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
But there are these constant grey areas where you feel slighted/ cheated: for example- I was told my boss would pay for my visa run to Osaka. He paid for the flight, yes, but then didn't refund me the 100.000+ I spent running around Osaka because I had no receipts. i don't care about the money, its just the feeling that they've pulled a sly one on you.
Its almost as if to remain in Korea, you have to decide on a tolerable level of sh*t that you're going to take. |
I don't understand this. If I were your employer I wouldn't pay either. For the ticket yes, but I would require receipts for everything else. For all I know, you could be claiming double the real expenses. Or you could have bought yourself a nice jacket or whatever and be trying to claim those as "getting around" expenses. I am NOT saying that is what you did. For the record I believe you. What I am saying is this is what the boss could be thinking. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 1:17 am Post subject: |
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You can't get reciepts for train tickets bought in a mad rush to get to the embassy. You can't even speak enough japanese to explain that you want a reciept for everything. the train ticket is swallowed by the machine at the end of your journey.
The boss seems to think that a day in Japan is cost- free. in actuality, its in the ballpark of 4X the cost of a day in Korea. |
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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 6:01 am Post subject: |
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Princess,
I think that it might have something to do with a former employer. My old supervisor gave me a letter of recommendation but when the schools would call her she would give me a bad reference. Still don't know she contradicted herself but I just guess that they do things different over here. |
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buddy bradley
Joined: 24 Aug 2003
Location: The Beyond
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| Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
You can't get reciepts for train tickets bought in a mad rush to get to the embassy. You can't even speak enough japanese to explain that you want a reciept for everything. the train ticket is swallowed by the machine at the end of your journey.
The boss seems to think that a day in Japan is cost- free. in actuality, its in the ballpark of 4X the cost of a day in Korea. |
I had the exact same thing happen to me. My boss pulled out the "oh but your recruiter was so expensive. I'll pay for the ticket and visa but I can't pay for the rest. But if you need money I'll be happy to lend you some".
Curly-haired cow. |
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