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Zaria32
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
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 Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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I'm surprised that no one went out into the street and stayed with him until help arrived...but most Americans are afraid of doing more harm to someone who has been injured, so I'm not the slightest bit surprised no one tried "to help" him. From the news stories I read, from the moment of impact until the arrival of the first help (I don't think it was EMS, I think it was cops) was 90 seconds.
In Andong last year I arrived on foot at an intersection at 8:30 am to see a woman lying fully in a lane of traffic. Cars were detouring around her and honking at her. I asked some middle school girls if she had been hit by a car. They shrugged. I then asked if anyone had called the police. They responded, "They no come." I walked out into the street, and stood over her on the theory that even at 5'1" I was taller than a woman lying in the road. Two Korean mean came out of a pharmacy on the corner and began yelling at me. About 5 minutes later they came out again and picked up the woman.
So quit your self-righteous anti-American preaching... |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:37 am Post subject: |
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| Join Me wrote: |
Your going to have to take a break from calling me out cause I need to go for a bike ride (preventative health care). Maybe you can send George a long and heartfelt e-mail thanking him for all he has done for you during my absence. I am sure he will be happy to hear from one of the few who are currently satisfied with the state of America even if you can't afford to live there anymore. |
Oh, that's a cop out if I've ever seen one. You were going on with this anti-American rant, and you have offered nothing positive to say about the U.S., and you've been extremely unbalanced, made excuses for Korean cops when I brought that up. Sure, the US has its problems.
I definitely would admit it. There is an economic crisis. I actually study almost every day at home to improve my skills, so that I can go back home. I am not ashamed of going home, and I am sure I can find a job if I really tried.
I am more than qualified. Are you? It's interesting how you are making it seem like I support Bush when I was against the war long before it started. I didn't oppose it, because I am simply anti-war or something, but because I knew what the result would be. I never voted for George W. Bush. Anyway, I did like the movie Sicko, but I don't think people in America are that afraid of their government. Michael Moore makes some good points, but he is engaged in way too much propaganda it seems. For example, in Fahrenheit 9-11, which I did enjoy watching, he said the Saudis invest 800 billion dollars a year in the US economy. This is completely false. It was their total investment. How hard was him to check that fact out properly?
So what do you have to say about America that is good? Frankly,
people not coming to an aid of a person is shocking, because generally Americans do help each other, but not enough believe in universal health care for it to exist. I hope that will change, but Americans do support each other. |
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Join Me
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| Join Me wrote: |
Your going to have to take a break from calling me out cause I need to go for a bike ride (preventative health care). Maybe you can send George a long and heartfelt e-mail thanking him for all he has done for you during my absence. I am sure he will be happy to hear from one of the few who are currently satisfied with the state of America even if you can't afford to live there anymore. |
Oh, that's a cop out if I've ever seen one. You were going on with this anti-American rant, and you have offered nothing positive to say about the U.S., and you've been extremely unbalanced, made excuses for Korean cops when I brought that up. Sure, the US has its problems.
I definitely would admit it. There is an economic crisis. I actually study almost every day at home to improve my skills, so that I can go back home. I am not ashamed of going home, and I am sure I can find a job if I really tried.
I am more than qualified. Are you? It's interesting how you are making it seem like I support Bush when I was against the war long before it started. I didn't oppose it, because I am simply anti-war or something, but because I knew what the result would be. I never voted for George W. Bush. Anyway, I did like the movie Sicko, but I don't think people in America are that afraid of their government. Michael Moore makes some good points, but he is engaged in way too much propaganda it seems. For example, in Fahrenheit 9-11, which I did enjoy watching, he said the Saudis invest 800 billion dollars a year in the US economy. This is completely false. It was their total investment. How hard was him to check that fact out properly?
So what do you have to say about America that is good? Frankly,
people not coming to an aid of a person is shocking, because generally Americans do help each other, but not enough believe in universal health care for it to exist. I hope that will change, but Americans do support each other. |
Your agenda is too obvious to even waste time arguing with you. For four weeks you have been on Dave's crying and whining (daily...hourly) about how cold hearted Koreans are. How unfairly your friend has been treated at the hands of these savages. Now, this event comes along in the US (on video no less) and you dismiss it with, "sure the USA has its problems." I could find you a case a week where a foreigner gets screwed royally by the system in our country. It isn't something Koreans have a monopoly on by a long shot.
Why aren't you in tears over the cruelty this poor old man had to endure as the cold hearted Americans just stood by while he was quite possibly dying? Really man, just get back to your Korea hating agenda and quit being a pest. |
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Zaria32
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:49 am Post subject: |
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Frankly, I think the "obvious agenda" shoe is on the other foot. And there's a correct use of words problem as well...
Cruel:
Synonyms 1. bloodthirsty, ferocious, merciless, relentless.
Cruel: ruthless, brutal, savage, implying readiness to cause pain
I think the most you can come up with might be cold-hearted, but other than someone going out into the street and stomping on the poor guy, cruel? They were calling for help, which arrived promptly. I know you'd rather think otherwise, that everyone was in a giggle fit about it all, but don't you have any self-honesty? |
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Join Me
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| Zaria32 wrote: |
Frankly, I think the "obvious agenda" shoe is on the other foot. And there's a correct use of words problem as well...
Cruel:
Synonyms 1. bloodthirsty, ferocious, merciless, relentless.
Cruel: ruthless, brutal, savage, implying readiness to cause pain
I think the most you can come up with might be cold-hearted, but other than someone going out into the street and stomping on the poor guy, cruel? They were calling for help, which arrived promptly. I know you'd rather think otherwise, that everyone was in a giggle fit about it all, but don't you have any self-honesty? |
Thank you Mr. Dictionary.com. Your knowledge of the English language doesn't go unappreciated here. Thank god there is an infinite number of people like you on Dave's ESL Cafe. Now all you need to do is start using the word "said" in every sentence and you can be an official English professor wanna be too. Hang in there you almost have the "said" position locked up.
Can you tell me one more thing...would idiot be the best word to use to describe you or would moron be more suitable? I'm leaning towards idiot but just want the advice of someone that clearly knows more than me. Thanks in advance for your help. |
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Zaria32
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:27 am Post subject: |
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Gee whiz, a bit nasty, don't you think? Idiot? Moron? You don't much care for disagreement, do you! Makes you get a bit personal...
And it's Ms Dictionary.com to you, IF you don't mind! I hope that's helpful enough... |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:22 am Post subject: |
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Your agenda is too obvious to even waste time arguing with you. For four weeks you have been on Dave's crying and whining (daily...hourly) about how cold hearted Koreans are. How unfairly your friend has been treated at the hands of these savages. Now, this event comes along in the US (on video no less) and you dismiss it with, "sure the USA has its problems." I could find you a case a week where a foreigner gets screwed royally by the system in our country. It isn't something Koreans have a monopoly on by a long shot.
Why aren't you in tears over the cruelty this poor old man had to endure as the cold hearted Americans just stood by while he was quite possibly dying? Really man, just get back to your Korea hating agenda and quit being a pest.[/quote]
You basically, slick, have a knack for putting words in peoples' mouths and being good at engaging in a praxis of hypocricy. It is so obvious to others. Of course, this is cruel. The people who didn't do anything failed the man. Where have I said any different. However, you said nothing about the Korean cops having to be forced by the US Embassy to have a case number. You are acting here like a self-hating American and an apologist for everyone who failed the boy. Look, the boy was failed in that case.
The American media admitted this. We admit stuff. We do fail morally in our country. We don't do so much of this face saving, and we have people who act in an evil way, we don't just explain it away like you did. I never used the word savages. I just said it is not encouraged to help strangers in this land. There is no good Samaritan law, and many foreigners, not just myself, have the impression that others are not even recognized.
Dude, people walk into me as if I don't even exist. I have never seen that in another country before, and I have been 22 countries. I don't hate Korea and see the good in the people, but I stand by the assertion that not only do the cops not give a crap in general when it comes to Koreans being victims, but often the regular hoi poloi don't do much for their own. I have had Koreans admit this when they are candid about it. But, you won't.
You must be living in a different country than me, partner. I remember when I had to deal with hagwon problems and none of my co-workers helped me except for one guy who I helped by going out of my way to make sure his English was great orally. I did go out of my way for him. He knew that, and he came to my aid when I was getting screwed. The others I really liked and respected, but they did not aid me. They didn't want to inconvenience themselves, pal. I am not dumb, I am not blind. I live here. It's their culture in many cases.
I accept that not everyone is like that, but it's a trend. I wasn't whining. I was trying to wake you from your Stockholm Syndrome type mentality. Again, you haven't said anything positive about the USA, the country that has given you so much. I will criticize the US, but I respect my nationality and my passport. I also respect my Canadian nationality. Arguing with you is actually more of a waste of time for me. There is no gueron in it.
You still did not address the fact that the police don't seem care to do their job. Korea also has a very high rate of corruption. So doing the so-called right thing and following the golden rule is not taken for granted.
There is ample evidence when it comes to that. You are in denial.
The fact that this made news without major prompting in the US says something. So many Koreans are like in trouble and I doubt it hits the papers. It happens everywhere. It's how we deal with these things that's different. You have to give us credit for that.
There is a problem in Korea of people not aiding one another in general, just as there is a problem in Quebec among many people when it comes
to being prejudiced toward non-francophones in Quebec. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:06 am Post subject: |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law
In the US and Canada there is the Good Samaritan law. Basically, if someone is in distress and you are trying to help them, you can not be sued or held liable if you happen to do more harm.
I don't think Korea has that kind of law. It is no surprise no one helps people here. You try to help someone who is injured and then you get slapped with a lawsuit. |
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Join Me
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:18 am Post subject: |
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Adventurer,
As I told you, your attitude is the problem. In Korea people bump into you without saying "excuse me" and some of the police are corrupt. Welcome to Korea. If you are expecting either to change for you...you have a long wait ahead of you. From the sounds of it though you are going to last about six months more (tops) before Korea spits you back out on the shores of the land of the free and the home of the brave. You'll be missed for sure but don't loose any sleep over it cause there is always another self righteous foreigner willing to come over and educate Koreans on how to best live their lives in their own country. See...now there is something we Americans do well!
Last edited by Join Me on Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:49 am; edited 4 times in total |
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Join Me
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law
In the US and Canada there is the Good Samaritan law. Basically, if someone is in distress and you are trying to help them, you can not be sued or held liable if you happen to do more harm.
I don't think Korea has that kind of law. It is no surprise no one helps people here. You try to help someone who is injured and then you get slapped with a lawsuit. |
They do not have a "Good Samaritan Law" in Korea and yes you can get sued if you cause injury to someone when you are trying to assist. |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Join Me wrote: |
Adventurer,
As I told you, your attitude is the problem. In Korea people bump into you without saying "excuse me" and some of the police are corrupt. Welcome to Korea. If you are expecting either to change for you...you have a long wait ahead of you. From the sounds of it though you are going to last about six months more (tops) before Korea spits you back out on the shores of the land of the free and the home of the brave. You'll be missed for sure but don't loose any sleep over it cause there is always another self righteous foreigner willing to come over and educate Koreans on how to best live their lives in their own country. See...now there is something we Americans do well! |
Nonsense. Aventurer has been on here a lot longer than you and looking at his posts over the past few years, I would not at all characterize him as you do. You, on the other hand, have come across as bitter and biased. And now you're just coming across as vindictive. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Join Me wrote: |
Adventurer,
As I told you, your attitude is the problem. In Korea people bump into you without saying "excuse me" and some of the police are corrupt. Welcome to Korea. If you are expecting either to change for you...you have a long wait ahead of you. From the sounds of it though you are going to last about six months more (tops) before Korea spits you back out on the shores of the land of the free and the home of the brave. You'll be missed for sure but don't loose any sleep over it cause there is always another self righteous foreigner willing to come over and educate Koreans on how to best live their lives in their own country. See...now there is something we Americans do well! |
My attitude is the problem? Well, your opinion is in the minority over here.
Dude, if a woman and her children simply walk into me, not simply just bump into me, they are not acknowledging me another human being.
It is not simply bumping into people. People walk around here in many cases as if others simply do not exist on the Confucian pecking order.
If your attitude is, well this is Korea, then the stuff you were complaining about the US one can say to you "It's America, love it or leave it".
If someone bumps into me, I don't care.
However, if you walk into me or hit me in the gut with your shoulder, I won't brush it off as culture. You can do that if you want. Waiting forever not to frantically call a mother in the same building when her son is in danger can't be explained away by the lack of Good Samaritan laws.
Look, you are the one getting into the petty insults, and I am older than
you, and I've been to far more countries. Second of all, I laughed when I read about you saying that I would last six months in Korea. I've been here already for 2 years and a few months.
I've survived teaching the ghetto. I walked through a terrorist hot bed of Egypt with a friend, because she wanted a shortcut, and I wanted to help her out, and I can blend enough with the languages I know. I have had to Labor in Korea, and I was helped by some decent people from the immigration office in Daejeon.
There are people who do right, and I support those people, but you are making excuses for the ones holding the country back. I know there are cultural differences, but, the Koreans themselves don't all simply like the rudeness.
Anyway, you still didn't address that thousands of cops don't care to do anything. You keep avoiding that one. You just say it is what it is.
But then you won't do that with America and say America is what it is.
How about some consistency, pal? By the way, you are assuming Koreans all want things to be the way they are in Korea and don't want change just like many Americans do want change. People want better lives, and the stuff I've mentioned, Koreans have told me anyway. I am not self-righteous, I just buy into blind nationalism, government corruption, police apathy. If you do, then good for you. |
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Zaria32
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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For the folks who commented on Good Samaritan laws...
I didn't mean to imply that Americans are afraid to assist the injured because of fear of legal retaliation...I am certainly aware of the existence of the Good Samaritan laws.
What I was trying to say was that we are all schooled to never even slightly move someone who has been injured for fear of worsening his injuries, not for fear of legal repercussions.
Join Me, some of the things you write are too silly for words. I suppose that's why your name calling hasn't angered me...it's just so childish! I don't know what more to say...
Kisses, Ms Dictionary.com |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Zaria32 wrote: |
What I was trying to say was that we are all schooled to never even slightly move someone who has been injured for fear of worsening his injuries, not for fear of legal repercussions. |
Its a shame more people in the US aren't properly trained in First Aid. I did my first aid training in high school. It was volunteer and it was free. After the brief program, you got a certificate. Out of 800 students only 4 showed up.
I'm pretty sure I need a refresher course. I hear nowadays, you don't even do mouth to mouth. Chest compressions is adequate. |
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Join Me
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| Join Me wrote: |
Adventurer,
As I told you, your attitude is the problem. In Korea people bump into you without saying "excuse me" and some of the police are corrupt. Welcome to Korea. If you are expecting either to change for you...you have a long wait ahead of you. From the sounds of it though you are going to last about six months more (tops) before Korea spits you back out on the shores of the land of the free and the home of the brave. You'll be missed for sure but don't loose any sleep over it cause there is always another self righteous foreigner willing to come over and educate Koreans on how to best live their lives in their own country. See...now there is something we Americans do well! |
My attitude is the problem? Well, your opinion is in the minority over here.
Dude, if a woman and her children simply walk into me, not simply just bump into me, they are not acknowledging me another human being.
It is not simply bumping into people. People walk around here in many cases as if others simply do not exist on the Confucian pecking order.
If your attitude is, well this is Korea, then the stuff you were complaining about the US one can say to you "It's America, love it or leave it".
If someone bumps into me, I don't care.
However, if you walk into me or hit me in the gut with your shoulder, I won't brush it off as culture. You can do that if you want. Waiting forever not to frantically call a mother in the same building when her son is in danger can't be explained away by the lack of Good Samaritan laws.
Look, you are the one getting into the petty insults, and I am older than
you, and I've been to far more countries. Second of all, I laughed when I read about you saying that I would last six months in Korea. I've been here already for 2 years and a few months.
I've survived teaching the ghetto. I walked through a terrorist hot bed of Egypt with a friend, because she wanted a shortcut, and I wanted to help her out, and I can blend enough with the languages I know. I have had to Labor in Korea, and I was helped by some decent people from the immigration office in Daejeon.
There are people who do right, and I support those people, but you are making excuses for the ones holding the country back. I know there are cultural differences, but, the Koreans themselves don't all simply like the rudeness.
Anyway, you still didn't address that thousands of cops don't care to do anything. You keep avoiding that one. You just say it is what it is.
But then you won't do that with America and say America is what it is.
How about some consistency, pal? By the way, you are assuming Koreans all want things to be the way they are in Korea and don't want change just like many Americans do want change. People want better lives, and the stuff I've mentioned, Koreans have told me anyway. I am not self-righteous, I just buy into blind nationalism, government corruption, police apathy. If you do, then good for you. |
I'm in the minority here for not being offended when a Korean bumps into me? Wake up. There are 40 some million Koreans that have no problem with it. Whether something like this matters to you is totally irrelevant to Koreans. If most of the English teachers on Dave's had their way, they would turn Korea (by whining) into just like back home. |
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