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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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 Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:56 am Post subject: Re: 9/11 was an inside job?! |
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| afsjesse wrote: |
| This is a video made by Alex Jones, a fighter against something many people call the New World Order. Many have heard of this term before, Bush said it in 1991, before him Gorbachov and many others. Even Sen. Gary Hart said George W. Bush could create a "New World Order" out of the 9/11 attacks. |
I watched his video Endgame and got tired of listing "facts" he simply made up or distorted. If you believe anything Jones tells you, you're a True Believer. |
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afsjesse
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Location: Kickin' it in 'Kato town.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:32 am Post subject: |
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| examples please. |
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5600
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Location: At an undisclosed FEMA camp.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:34 am Post subject: |
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The holocaust never happend, man has never walked on the moon, it was a weather balloon that crashed in Roswell, D.B. Cooper died on impact, Elvis never left the building, and I'm looking forward to the new X-Files movie....Gillian Anderson!! |
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A2Steve
Joined: 10 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| IncognitoHFX wrote: |
American culture has been built up as something special, a place where people are free, individual and unafraid to stand up for what they believe in. It's an ideal has been going on and on for quite some time now, throughout the entirety of the twenty first century even.
Now there is a president in power who is literally in the process of making the American Empire fall, and the population, being (mostly) fat, stupid or oblivious, isn't doing nearly enough to prevent this from happening. The American population is overwraught with well fed, passive, ignorant mammals who don't even know where to start making such changes. This president is obviously sucking the life out of democracy and tormenting the world.
I'm not sure if that was the plan all along, or if it's just circumstance, but regardless of how you may think it happened, you can't argue with the fact that America's time in the sun has come and gone. Now let's just sit back, watch the empire fall as they always do, and watch the next empire rise (in the East). |
And if you teach English in Korea, feel free to thank an American for creating a world in the 20th and 21st century so gravitated to the language you make a living at. |
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A2Steve
Joined: 10 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:43 am Post subject: Re: 9/11 was an inside job?! |
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| afsjesse wrote: |
I have always questioned 9/11 and believe it is obvious those towers were brought down by controlled demolitions.
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you obviously havent studied construction, engineering, or any other material sciences.
more likely you are a conspiracy theorist, and prior to September 11, 2001, you gravitated toward stories about little green men in roswell, nm and stories about atlantis.
you dishonor the people who died that day by insinuating it was anything than what it was. |
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A2Steve
Joined: 10 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| 5600 wrote: |
The holocaust never happend, man has never walked on the moon, it was a weather balloon that crashed in Roswell, D.B. Cooper died on impact, Elvis never left the building, and I'm looking forward to the new X-Files movie....Gillian Anderson!! |
yeah, but this is Gillian 11 years after the last one. |
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Dev
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:09 am Post subject: |
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If you're curious about more 9-11 views, you can watch Zeitgeist at www.zeitgeistmovie.com
The 9-11 story is the second topic covered in the film. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| afsjesse wrote: |
| examples please. |
Sure. From my notes:
Jones also claims the forerunner to the UN the League of Nations was a British creation. Now, it sure seems to me the League of Nations idea was one of Woodrow Wilson's 14 points, not a British idea.
Jones claims in the 1980s the media steadfastly denied of the group's existence. Of course, Jones supplies no source.
Jones claims Americans who attend Bilderberg meetings are in violation of the Logan act. Jones then cites what one thinks is a quote from the Logan act but is not in fact a reading of the act. It's merely his interpretation. Jones claims that any member of the government who meets with a foreign official is commiting a felony. Really? No.
The North American Union, Jones claims, is about a merger with no input from the people. Now unless the political systems in the USA and Canada have radically changed in about the last five minutes, it seems to me treaties need to be ratified by the legislatures. If you recall, NAFTA was a significant part of the 1992 election debate.
Jones whips up some anti-foreigner sentiment by claiming "non citizens" are being recruited by the army and police force to suppress American citizens. Now it is technically true non citizens can join the army and probably many police forces. But these aren't exactly foreigners shipped in to crush dissent. These are called "green card holders". You don't get an American green card unless you've lived a good hunk of your life in America. Seems to me a lot of "non citizens" have given their life in Iraq and Afghanastan. Geez, thanks Jones for slagging their sacrifice.
Jones finds private citizens forming think tanks and writing what they hope is policy anti-democratic. However, he fails to realize a lot of the laws passed by congress are cooked up by private groups. Someone has to come up with the idea for a law. Lawmakers aren't actually the ones sitting around going "hey what new laws can we write!" Private interests even supply the congressman they want to introduce the bill with "sample legislation" that may well form the basis for the actual law. Do a google search some time on "sample legislation" and check out what groups are writing what potential laws.
Within the context of the North American Union is a Canadian/American/Mexican proposal called the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America or SPP. The plan was launched by Bush, Paul Martin an Vicente Fox in 2005. Jones and his followers seem to make a big thing about this plan being hatched in secret and when smoked out they had some "show summit" in 2007. Now oddly enough this plan is so secret, the white house has press releases about it from 2005 and the SPP has its own web site that's been in existence since 2005. Of course, one might claim they simply created the page in 2007 and back dated everything, but then if you do a search on the url in the wayback machine, one not unsurprisingly finds the page was archive by the wayback machine in 2005. Anyway, it's always a little disengenous when conspiracy nuts claim that things being done in public are more proof of the secretive nature. It's so secret, they need to have some public cover story.
Jones warns us the North American Union is going to result in a flood of foreign goods into the USA. Oh, like that's not happening now. And wait. Those goods are going to be Mexican and Canadian. When Jones was up in Canada trying to convince Canadians they were going to lose their sovereignty was he also warning them this nefarious plan would result in a huge surge of Canadian exports to the USA?
And how will these foreign goods flow into the USA? Well, it's via something called the "NAFTA superhighway control grid". It's a plan for truck tollroad that will go from Mexico, through the center of the USA, hooking up through Detroit, and then feed into Canada's 401 highway via Windsor, Ontario. Which happens to be the home town of yours truly. Go Windsor Horned Warrior! The blue and teal for ever!
Anyway, we all like roads. Nothing much wrong with that. And if will keep truck traffic off the highways we use, hey, even better. Jones, however, needs to make it seem more ominious. See, it's a toll road. They will photograph you license plate. Big brother! The government will track you! Geez. Doesn't Jones use a cell phone? Aren't we tracked a dozen different ways already? Cell phone use, ATM use, using EZ pass type cards for toll roads or the subway, using our credit cards, using point cards for groceries. Hello! Guess what. In modern society, you give up little slices of privacy for convenience.
Also to make the superhighway idea more scary, we're told a Spanish company has won the contract to run it. Ummm. And this is a problem how? The lowest bidder is a European company, familiar with the language of the workers who are going to end up pouring the ashphalt?
Jones also rambles about something called the Kansas City Inland port where in over the top language Jones claims asian cargo is "dumped" on American shores and travels to a logistics center in Kansas City. This port is, according to Jones, "soverign soil of Mexico". Geeez. Really? Well, no. The facility has a Mexican customs facility staffed by Mexican customs officials who preclear American cargo bound for Mexico. Anyone who has ever flown from Toronto to the USA would recognize the utility here. Toronto's Pearson airport has American customs right in the Canadian airport. You're precleared in Toronto and don't have to pass through customs at your American destination. Saves getting to, say, Dallas, and finding out you can't enter the USA to conduct business at a client site.
As in the Logan act, Jones also seems to invent whole new passages in laws. Jones claims section 802 of HR 3162 (aka the patriot act) defines misdemeanors as terrorism.
Well no. The section reads:
5) the term `domestic terrorism' means activities that--
`(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
`(B) appear to be intended--
`(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
`(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
`(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
`(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.'.
Jones turns his eye to China and notes China is a globalist laboratory. For example, the CIA backed Mao during WWII. The CIA didn't actually exist in World War II. There's one problem with that claim.
He incorrectly attributes "survival of the fittest" to Darwin. The phrase was actually coined by British economist Herbert Spencer. Darwin used the term "natural selection". And remember in evolution, fitness has nothing to do with what we think of as physical fitness. For example, I can lift more weight and run faster than the 300 lbs guy down the hall everyone calls "weird Frank" but Weird Frank has had two kids. I have not. He is, by definition, more fit than I. More of his genes are currently in the population than mine.
We're also told Bertrand Russell was a eugencist. Odd. Here let me quote Russell:
It is sometimes maintained that racial mixture is biologically undesirable. There is no evidence whatever for this view. Nor is there, apparently, any reason to think that Negroes are congenitally less intelligent than white people�
Next Jones lays on us the amazing stat that 27% of the us population is on antidepressants. That more than 1 out of 4. According to the LA times, 9.5% of the population suffers from a depressive disorder and only half of them seek medical treatment. So where's Jones getting this 27% figure?
Jones also gets a bit into the vaccination conspiracy, you know they're putting things in vaccines to make people sterile or vaccines will give your kid autism. Lots of good skeptical blogs deal with the vaccine fear monger crowd and a quick google will show you why this is fulla crap. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| 5600 wrote: |
(1) How could a rag-tag bunch of hijackers penetrate the strongest military in history and disable normal defensive procedures? |
Did you ever fly through American airports before 2001? People earning $5 an hour working security.
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| (2) How could 3 super-strong, over-engineered buildings become the first modern steel-frame high-rises in history to collapse due to fire, falling at virtually free-fall speed, and exhibiting many indications normally associated with controlled demolition? |
Are you a structural engineer? This is an argument from ignorance fallacy. "I don't know how this could have happened, therefore I know it was controlled demolition." Your reasoning is circular. |
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samd
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:40 am Post subject: |
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911 conspiracy theories are beyond ridiculous.
I have serious doubts about anyone who believes that nonsense for a second. |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| samd wrote: |
911 conspiracy theories are beyond ridiculous.
I have serious doubts about anyone who believes that nonsense for a second. |
If you've done any reading on the subject, I think it's ridiculous to dismiss it out of hand. There are just far too many things that happened that day that have not been accounted for.
Just a few:
a) why have all videos of the attack on the Pentagon been withheld, except one, which only shows the flash, and not what is hitting the Pentagon?
b) why has there been no official explanation for the collapse of WTC7? The investigation continues...
c) why was Cheney in charge that day, and why did he have command control over the Eastern Seaboard's Air Defence?
d) what was Cheney referring to when in the presence of the Transportation secretary in the bunker of the White House the morning of Sept. 11, he repeatedly, and later angrily, told a military officer "the order still stands" while the officer said, "50 miles away, does the order still stand? 40 miles away, does the order still stand?... (the implication being that Cheney allowed an incoming plane/missile to strike the pentagon, without any air defences utilized).
e) how did the most heavily guarded building on the planet, the Pentagon, get struck by "a passenger jet" without a single anti-aircraft missile being shot at it?
f) why did the administration claim to have no prior knowledge of the attack, nor the forethought to predict such an attack, when it's own documents later proved otherwise (Bin Laden determined to strike the U.S.)
g) why did Bin Laden not claim responsibility for months and months, and then a widely-discredited Bin Laden video was later shown claiming responsibility?
h) why did the building 7 fall without a plane hitting it, and SEC files for Enron and others went up in smoke?
i) why were put options placed for 911 on airline stocks?
j) why did the WTC buildings fall at the virtual free fall speed, when the bottom two-thirds of the buildings were not struck by airplanes, and the entire WTC7 building was not struck by and airplane? |
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Lekker
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:28 am Post subject: |
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911 was the scariest day of my life. I filmed the WTC going down in NY. Still have the video. Showed it to my class. It makes me angry. Inside act or not, I doubt Bush knew anything about it before hand, maybe his cabinet did, but I don't think he did, and if they knew something was up, there is really no way of knowing if they knew for sure what exactly was going to happen.. I think a lot of people had a suspicion that something was going to happen to the WTC... again.
I can remember back in 2000, my friend and I were looking out my apartment window at the WTC towers. I knew something was going to happen to those towers again. I just had this gut feeling. After they tried to take it down the first time, there was no way you could sit there and look at how high they were and not suspect something was bound to happen again. And sure enough, a few months later, in September, we both watched them go down. It really didn't surprise some people, just another day in New York.
There is a lot of conspiracy surrounding 911, why isn't there a lot of conspiracy surrounding the tube bombings? Or the Subway bombings in Madrid? After all, the same people who did those acts are part of the same organization who took down the Twin Towers, right? At least that's what the word on the street is.
I for one, think our VP should be hung, drawn, and quartered, then he should be shot in the head. |
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samd
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
| samd wrote: |
911 conspiracy theories are beyond ridiculous.
I have serious doubts about anyone who believes that nonsense for a second. |
If you've done any reading on the subject, I think it's ridiculous to dismiss it out of hand. There are just far too many things that happened that day that have not been accounted for.
Just a few:
a) why have all videos of the attack on the Pentagon been withheld, except one, which only shows the flash, and not what is hitting the Pentagon?
b) why has there been no official explanation for the collapse of WTC7? The investigation continues...
c) why was Cheney in charge that day, and why did he have command control over the Eastern Seaboard's Air Defence?
d) what was Cheney referring to when in the presence of the Transportation secretary in the bunker of the White House the morning of Sept. 11, he repeatedly, and later angrily, told a military officer "the order still stands" while the officer said, "50 miles away, does the order still stand? 40 miles away, does the order still stand?... (the implication being that Cheney allowed an incoming plane/missile to strike the pentagon, without any air defences utilized).
e) how did the most heavily guarded building on the planet, the Pentagon, get struck by "a passenger jet" without a single anti-aircraft missile being shot at it?
f) why did the administration claim to have no prior knowledge of the attack, nor the forethought to predict such an attack, when it's own documents later proved otherwise (Bin Laden determined to strike the U.S.)
g) why did Bin Laden not claim responsibility for months and months, and then a widely-discredited Bin Laden video was later shown claiming responsibility?
h) why did the building 7 fall without a plane hitting it, and SEC files for Enron and others went up in smoke?
i) why were put options placed for 911 on airline stocks?
j) why did the WTC buildings fall at the virtual free fall speed, when the bottom two-thirds of the buildings were not struck by airplanes, and the entire WTC7 building was not struck by and airplane? |
FFS, Google these or check the link earlier in the thread. |
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elzoog
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| 5600 wrote: |
(1) How could a rag-tag bunch of hijackers penetrate the strongest military in history and disable normal defensive procedures? |
Did you ever fly through American airports before 2001? People earning $5 an hour working security.
| Quote: |
| (2) How could 3 super-strong, over-engineered buildings become the first modern steel-frame high-rises in history to collapse due to fire, falling at virtually free-fall speed, and exhibiting many indications normally associated with controlled demolition? |
Are you a structural engineer? This is an argument from ignorance fallacy. "I don't know how this could have happened, therefore I know it was controlled demolition." Your reasoning is circular. |
Prior to 9/11, demolishing a building so that it would fall straight down and cause minimal damage to surrounding buildings took months of planning and carefully placed explosives. All of this was done by engineers who needed very expensive training in a university.
During 9/11, hell just fly an airplane into the building. No carefully placed explosives and doesn't require as much training. Still takes months to plan but only because you have to plan it so that you don't get caught by airport security.
In fact, wouldn't it be much cheaper just to fly an airplane into a building than to do all of that planning and all of that consulting with structural engineers? |
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elzoog
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| afsjesse wrote: |
| examples please. |
Sure. From my notes:
We're also told Bertrand Russell was a eugencist. Odd. Here let me quote Russell:
It is sometimes maintained that racial mixture is biologically undesirable. There is no evidence whatever for this view. Nor is there, apparently, any reason to think that Negroes are congenitally less intelligent than white people�
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He also said, "Population [must be] stationary or nearly so.... The White population of the world will soon cease to increase. The Asiatic races will be longer, and the Negroes still longer, before their birth rate falls sufficiently to make their numbers stable without the help of war and pestilence.... Until that happens...the less prolific races will have to defend themselves against the more prolific."
Actually, I agree with him that near zero population growth is a good thing.
| Quote: |
Next Jones lays on us the amazing stat that 27% of the us population is on antidepressants. That more than 1 out of 4. According to the LA times, 9.5% of the population suffers from a depressive disorder and only half of them seek medical treatment. So where's Jones getting this 27% figure?
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Depression is not the only thing anti-depressants are prescribed for. They can also be given to a person to overcome shyness, obsessive compulsive disorder, people wanting to be more social, insomnia, as well as other disorders.
Sometimes, they are even given to babies.
http://www.pharmalot.com/2007/09/babies-given-antidepressants-in-new-zealand/
Of course that is New Zealand, however similar trends happen in the US.
http://elfninosmom.wordpress.com/2007/12/21/antipsychotics-being-prescribed-for-babies-and-toddlers/ |
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