Korean Job Discussion Forums

[waterbaby]

Hey folks, let's not turn yet another thread into one about Austin.

[Austin]

Rapier,

As I stated, it is irrelevant whether Kate claims to be innocent. The fact remains that she touched a student and made the student cry.

Strange how people that have been abused as children repeatedly claim that it never did them any harm, especially when they grow up to use the same form of punishment on kids in their care.

If you worked for me and touched a student out of frustration as Kate did, I would bunch you right out of the school and the country! There are absolutely no justifiable excuses for resorting to physical violence and abuse to manage a classroom effectively.

One has to appreciate how you seek to lay the blame on the school when an employee crosses the line and physically punishes a child. It is merely a sign of a sick individual that does not know any better, period.

This business about "snapping" only denotes your inability to manage yourself properly in the face of adversity in the classroom. Blaming a child for what you do is extremely puzzling!

Are not you the only person to blame for what you do?

[Harvard Material]

O.K. Austin; what do you suggest we do when wan-jang-nim takes a piece of wood to a kid? You know the 'Love Stick'? What if I do not agree with physical abuse but my employer is guilty of that? Is it considered tolerable for a director to physically punish children, but not staff? Or certain 'select' members of the staff? Should the hakwon be shut down? What's your opinion?

I saw that happen several times at a hakwon I worked at. Do you blame the director, do you agree with the director...is it the disruptive student's fault now?

Just curious...

[schwa]

K-in-C, maybe its time to take a hard honest look at yourself & ask yourself why your students, coworkers, & director are feeling disaffected with you.

Your lengthy 'rants' on this forum paint a disturbing picture of someone ill-prepared to deal with the challenges of living & teaching in a foreign country. If you didnt go into such detail & ask for comment, I wouldnt, but here goes.

Nobody loves a drama queen. On more than one occasion youve asked the forum members here for permission to be upset. I decline.

Korea had a serious typhoon, your power was off, & you were in tears. Nothing happened! but youre still upset about it weeks later. You admit to being boring & not fun in class ever since. Put yourself in the shoes of those who have to get along with you every day.

Now youre crying a 'zillion' tears over a reprimand that sounds quite deserved -- you took out your frustrations on a student who acted out, quite likely, because of your emotional preoccupations.

Meanwhile, you ask & re-ask on this forum for detailed instructions how to proceed from your situation. Seems to me as if youre reaching out to have your hand held when fact is its not all that difficult. Advice is useful, yes, but so is initiative.

You say you 'cant play the game.' Well, sorry, but you need to if you entertain any hope of success here. I'm also sorry if this message seems harsh but I really think you need to give the whole situation some serious introspection. I honestly wish you happiness.

[Austin]

Harvard Material,

I am unclear about your question. Are you asking me what I would do about another person's behavior? As I have stated previously, I can only be responsible for my actions. What another person chooses to do is beyond my control.

I have accepted long ago that people get abused all over the world (life is suffering). However, I am not eager to perpetuate it. My employer is my superior, and as such, it is not my place to tell him how to conduct himself. I handle all of my classroom management issues myself, which protects my students while they are in my care. What happens outside of my time with them is outside of my area of influence.

It is not about blame or agreement. It is a personal choice to be in control of your emotions to manage your classroom effectively.

Years ago, I briefly worked with some other foreigners in Korea that felt it was acceptable to hit their students with rolled up newspapers, etc. At one of our staff meetings, I raised the issue with my employer, my supervisor, and the other staff. I asked if that was the type of atmosphere that they wanted to foster, etc. Needless to say, the other staff did not see a problem with it (I was the only one with a background in education). There attitude did not surprise me.

Did I just happen to have a great bunch of kids that did not need to be beat?

No, I knew how to manage my class without having to resort to the lowest form of discipline, violence.

[Son Deureo!]

It's a fair question, Austin. You say you're opposed to the physical punishment of students, no matter what.

You also seem to be in favor of supporting your employer, no matter what.

So what happens when your employer uses physical punishment on your students? Do worlds collide? Do you turn a blind eye? Do you tell your employer that you think what he's doing is wrong, and tell him you'll quit if it continues?

Enquiring minds want to know!

[rapier]

I appreciate your very modern perspective and well argued statement: however, allow me to share some facts of my own educational experience:
*I went to school largely in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, where physical punishment for bad behavior was standard. I grew up with the cane, the ruler, and various other penalties. In addition to this, we respected our elders, had to call our teachers sir/ Miss, wear our uniform correctly, even take our caps off and stand to attention when a teacher passed by. Cheek, slackness, sloppiness, or answering back were not tolerated. Although there was little actual caning mated out, it was from time to time, and the occasional caning of the worst students was enough to keep everybody in line. Our schools drew students from all over Africa, scored highly on test results, and competed extremely well in sport (my school was world schoolboy rugby champions). Many ex pupils went on to great things and populate the higher echelons of the working world everywhere.
*On transferring to school in England, I immediately noticed the dramatic difference: There was no respect for teachers. kids dressed how they liked ( a fashion show), openly were cheeky to teachers, fought constantly, and my sports and even English language skills were way above theirs. They routinely reduced teachers to exasperation for sport, and smoking or glue sniffing in the playground was commonplace. Rebels were admired. There was little in the way of punishments for offenders.
*Korea: another generation is growing up to know that they don't have to do anything they don't want to,respect their teachers, or behave well and responsibly. there are no punishments, no consequences for bad behavior. The only value foreigners can possibly have to students is as objects of amusement, performers, entertainers. the fact that only korean teachers are allowed to discipline further undermines us and leaves us outside the credible community, let alone the human race.
Think about it.

[Harvard Material]

There are two types of reinforcement; positive and negative. Both are necessary at times, but why they are necessary is of primary concern. Out of control behaviour. A lack of discipline results in a lack of responsibility, plain and simple. If you have/show little respect for others eventually you get scolded, slapped or your ass kicked - depending on the extent of your negative behavour and your age. Better to discipline kids now and teach them to avoid getting a broken nose, or worse, later in life.

We had the strap when I was in elementary school. You got it for being bad. It was a rather formal affair though, and not simply getting hit from a teacher in class. Permission from the parents was necessary as well.

The topic here is a teacher being accused of hitting a child in Seoul. This is nothing new here, nor is it necessary (in my opinion), but it is rampant. Leading a kid out the door is pretty much the only thing I would use for discipline. "Bye-bye." Out of class, and let the owner/manager/Korean assistant deal with the unruly boy/girl.

I do agree with Austin about maintaining control and composure in your teaching methods and disciplinary methods, but sometimes a repeat offender must go, and when they get slapped by the director it is no different than me doing the hitting. There are other ways to get the point across without hitting. Unfortunately, for KandC, it was used as a reason to expel that teacher from the school.

What did the kid end up learning from it? How to successfully *beep* a foreigner out of their job? Not a very good lesson. And has the director ever hit a kid during school hours? "Do as I say, not as I do?" That was the situation at my last job. I disagree with kids being hit, regardless who is doing the hitting. Director or otherwise.

[Mr. Pink]

[ithacan]

I arrived July 1st and got fired August 1st on an E2 visa in Daejeon - my first ESL job ever- new school lostsa problems korean teachers quitting crazy boss that backstabs you - so....... after some heated disagreements about my contract she decided to fire me and she would only pay me after I moved out of the apartment immediately and signed the documents she created about how I was bad (eating noodles- feet on desk- not following lesson plans etc.)

question - I have yet to get the release letter because my main focus was getting paid and then get the letter- she is reluctant just b/c she wants to stick me- I know she broke a lot of contract law with me and forcing me to sign under duress (put on the street - threat of no pay) I dont want this to get weird- any suggestions for her to sign the release of contract ?

The school is Herald N.I.E. in Tae Pyeong-dong the name of this lovely lady is Ms. Ahn Soo Yeon