|
Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
TECO

Joined: 20 Jan 2003
|
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
judo / ju jitsu comment is surprising since judo flows from ju jitsu and they appear similar. Also, whether you're training in daitoryu or bjj, the principles are much the same. I like a lot of the choking techniques in ju jitsu. judo seems boring now compared to ju jitsu. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
xingyiman
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
|
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
Allen wrote: |
You show very little understanding of BJJ techniques. Was your training done by DVD or a book?
|
Sorry to dissappoint you. I never ceases to amaze me as how some BJJ afficiandos always seem to be able to decipher a person's skill by a few misconstrued sentences on a forum. I trained in the real deal Ralph.
And let me put it to you this way. BJJ and Judo are markedly similar and thats because most BJJ techinques were drawn from Judo, not Jiu Jitsu.
The difference is that the primary assualt weapon for the Judoka is in fact the throw itself, something that BJJ is most defecient in. It's amazing the damage a person can inflict by ramming an opponent into the pavement with the full force of a throw. Yes I know that goes against proper Judo etiquette but it is effective nontheless. I trained in BJJ for three years, yes I've watched a few VCR tapes(the Gracies hadn't got them out on DVD at the time I was training) but 99% of my training was under a certified instructor. I have rolled with Judoka and BJJers alike and I am well aware of the limitations of each, I would take a guess moreso than yourself. BJJ definitely has utility but it being a have all end all - can beat any other martial artist with only 6 weeks of training is about as out of date as UFC 2.
BJJ is evolving and I have not been active in it for a few years now but I'm sure the core principles remain the same. I have trained in Mauy Thai (Bangkok) Takgeyon, Judo, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Shaolin Kung fu, and Boxing. Of all my training I would still rate the BJJ as the least effective in a real life combat situation. Mostly this is based on the fact that I have been in real life combat situations, not an armchair quarterback. Where it has great utility is in controlling opponents for example - police training(which of course you've got a gun and a handy club and raido to call for backup).
As a recipient of some of the less courteous behaviors exhibited by us humans, I can honestly tell you that "glory fighting" is suicide. If a real life situation happens you will be lucky to get in a good shot or two, which might give you enough time to high tail it out of there before cops or the thug's backup shows up. In any case it'll be doubtful that you'll be flexing your biceps, and bragging about your great BJJ technique afterward.
Of course I am used to all the BS and machismo that goes along with the aura, after all I was one of you at one point.
Alas if you're really in need of something to prove just go down to Itaewon and pick a fight with a few drunk soldiers. If you indeed come out smelling like a rose and leaving a pile of bodies in your wake then I want you to teach me your style Homer!
But what do I know, I've only been trading punches, kicks, and wrestling since I was 8. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
xingyiman
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
|
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
TECO wrote: |
judo / ju jitsu comment is surprising since judo flows from ju jitsu and they appear similar. Also, whether you're training in daitoryu or bjj, the principles are much the same. I like a lot of the choking techniques in ju jitsu. judo seems boring now compared to ju jitsu. |
Well BJJ is a good MA for those with attention deficit disorder. Things move quickly and there's lots of variety.
Your observation about Judo vs BJJ is representative of lower level technique (brown belt to 1st Dan). Roll with a 5th Dan or above and you'll notice the difference.
I would sum up the difference like this:
(Street/bar fight)
lower or middle level BJJ guy vs complete skilless moron - complete cleanup.
Same BJJ guy against a guy with some HS or college wrestling - 50/50 depending on who was the best fighter as well as age, stamina etc......
High level BJJ and Judo will be relatively indistinguishable (but then again how many studly jockos on this thread are that? )
Lower/middle level judo in my experience is more applicable to what you would encounter for real and BJJ is more of what you would encounter
an MMA match. Maybe I just had a real kick arse Judo teacher but thats how I call it.
Last edited by xingyiman on Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
stevieg4ever

Joined: 11 Feb 2006 Location: London, England
|
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
I personally love Taekwondo but I can understand its limitations. Other martial artists say it is very fancy but not practical. A lot of the techniques work when the opponent is at a distance from you but are useless if they are up close.
Compared to various styles of Kung-Fu it is impractical. The limitation of hand techniques is also a common criticism. That said... if you are good enough you can make it work for sure.
Every style has its limitations and corresponding rhetoric. Also there is a lot of emphasis on the MMA these days. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Allen
Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Gunpo
|
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
Wow Xingyiman. Such a chip on your shoulder.
You trained in the "real deal" did you? But it has been a few years.
You have been fighting since you were 8? That does not say much. I can make those claims as well, but that is just stupid, since they can't be proven.
Yes Judo and BJJ come from are literally the same art, but BJJ focuses more on Ne-Waza.
Oh since you listed your resume, here is mine.
Full Contact Karate, Judo, BJJ, JKDC, Kali, Boxing, Shaolin KungFu/Chinese Kempo [including much full contact] (Sifu rank), TKD, American Kenpo, and Silat. I have trained with world champions and professional fighters.
Currently I train BJJ and Judo and most of the difference in the are how they are set up and the postion of the thrower at the end. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Allen
Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Gunpo
|
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
I would like to see TKD make a change for the better. It was the first art Istudied, but it has fallen far. To make it legit they should adopt some rules for Kyukushin or its offshoots or adopt the rules of K1 style.
stevieg4ever wrote: |
I personally love Taekwondo but I can understand its limitations. Other martial artists say it is very fancy but not practical. A lot of the techniques work when the opponent is at a distance from you but are useless if they are up close.
Compared to various styles of Kung-Fu it is impractical. The limitation of hand techniques is also a common criticism. That said... if you are good enough you can make it work for sure.
Every style has its limitations and corresponding rhetoric. Also there is a lot of emphasis on the MMA these days. |
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
xingyiman
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
|
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
Bryan wrote: |
xingyiman wrote: |
. BJJ is great in controlled situations but there's no feasible reality in you and an opponent bantering in the gaurd for 10 minutes in a real life scenario. |
Interesting. I just got back from no-gi an hour ago and I don't think I spent a period of longer than 30 seconds on my back in guard without changing positions. I think I spent most of the time on two feet, working for a takedown.
Some people develop a style in BJJ that is somewhat bad for MMA and the street--they pull guard, and then work from guard the whole time. That's all up to them, if they want to train that way. It helps win BJJ competitions sometimes, so it's all good if that's their goal. Some people don't care about competing in MMA and that's perfectly fine. My style is more of going for the takedown then top game, which seems to be better for MMA. But there are guys that are great from the bottom in MMA too (Mir did well against Lesnar).
On getting in real life fights, my opinion about that is that's for losers. I've never got into a fight and never will. |
I used to be a big fan of working from the top until my instructor showed me how easy it is to do a reversal (Something the Gracies' early opponents never seemed to catch onto). After that I got really paranoid and confined my grappling to the fun fighting in the school and began working on brute force power in striking. You gotta know how to handle yourself on the ground if you end up there.
The truth of the matter is that BJJ like just about any other martial art is what you make it. What is annoying are the types of bozo's who train for MMA and use the gaurd as their primary weapon and then are insistant that it translates seamlessly into street application and thats laughable to any experienced fighter unless of course you have a Mcdojo and are looking to recruit some 13 year old wannabes. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
xingyiman
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
|
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
Allen wrote: |
Wow Xingyiman. Such a chip on your shoulder.
Oh since you listed your resume, here is mine.
Full Contact Karate, Judo, BJJ, JKDC, Kali, Boxing, Shaolin KungFu/Chinese Kempo [including much full contact] (Sifu rank), TKD, American Kenpo, and Silat. I have trained with world champions and professional fighters.
|
Yawn.......never had much time for book studies or anything else for that matter with that kind of schedule. I'm always suspicious of anyone claiming the do the whole JKD Kali thing, unless of course your instructor was Dan Inosanto. Met lots of em over the years. A word...quality not quantity my good man.
Allen wrote: |
Currently I train BJJ and Judo and most of the difference in the are how they are set up and the postion of the thrower at the end. |
That depends entirely upon who your instructor is and who trained him/her and where. Some Judo masters concentrate on thows and really don't lend much time comparably to Ne Waza. Others really emphasize it. To be honest, your grasp of Judo sounds more of a lower academic understanding than your grasp of BJJ. Of course I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt because I cannot observe you or your skill so I will avoid rash conclusions based upon your written description, which by the way is way more courtesy than you showed me earlier in the thread.
Pre and post Dan Judo are different animals. Judo isn't as flashy as its stepchild but the techniques at higher skill levels are much more effective with less effort. BJJ and Judo are kind of like comparing Muay Thai and Bak Mei kung fu. 3 months in Thai boxing will turn you into a real thumper but 3 years in the other will have a more profound effect on how you really operate. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Allen
Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Gunpo
|
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
Xingyiman
Most experienced BJJ guys realize the difference between rolling on the mat and the street. Yes, in the ring or the tourney mat, the guard is a strong offensive and defensive position. On the street it is a position that you have in your arsenal and is primarily used to get into a better position.
Sure, noobs come in after watching the UFC all gung-ho, but they quickly learn or get weeded out.
There are a lot of people now that "train", that have not has any real experience. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Allen
Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Gunpo
|
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
As a matter of fact, my JKD instructor received his instructor cert directly from Sifu Dan. I have met and trained with Sifu Dan a few time, and he is a great guy.
And you are the one who posted your experience:"I have trained in Mauy Thai (Bangkok) Takgeyon, Judo, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Shaolin Kung fu, and Boxing. " So you must be skeptical of yourself.
"I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt because I cannot observe you or your skill so I will avoid rash conclusions based upon your written description, which by the way is way more courtesy than you showed me earlier in the thread."
Maybe you should not make blanket statements on things you are not sure about. It may make such courtesies more forthcoming. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Bryan
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
|
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
xingyiman wrote: |
I used to be a big fan of working from the top until my instructor showed me how easy it is to do a reversal (Something the Gracies' early opponents never seemed to catch onto). After that I got really paranoid and confined my grappling to the fun fighting in the school and began working on brute force power in striking. You gotta know how to handle yourself on the ground if you end up there. |
I find it funny that you're evaluating BJJ (and judo, or any other style of grappling) for everyone in the thread and then make a comment like "till my instructor showed me how easy it is to do a reversal."
Quote: |
I have trained in Mauy Thai (Bangkok) Takgeyon, Judo, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Shaolin Kung fu, and Boxing. " |
lol!! |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
xingyiman
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
|
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Bryan wrote: |
xingyiman wrote: |
I used to be a big fan of working from the top until my instructor showed me how easy it is to do a reversal (Something the Gracies' early opponents never seemed to catch onto). After that I got really paranoid and confined my grappling to the fun fighting in the school and began working on brute force power in striking. You gotta know how to handle yourself on the ground if you end up there. |
I find it funny that you're evaluating BJJ (and judo, or any other style of grappling) for everyone in the thread and then make a comment like "till my instructor showed me how easy it is to do a reversal."
Quote: |
I have trained in Mauy Thai (Bangkok) Takgeyon, Judo, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Shaolin Kung fu, and Boxing. " |
lol!! |
Good land, what a self absorbed ahole.
Enjoy your pipe dreams.
For your information, my teacher's reversals were a bit more unorthadox than what you'd find the newbs doing. Completely a different way of approaching the gaurd and representative of a very high level of Judo skill. In other words something that, if your teacher knows he obviously hasn't let you in on it yet.
Oh for Pete's sake, I am talking to the wall here. Now go on out and get your asses handed to you. The sooner the better.
It's never ceases to amaze me how 6 months of Brazilian jiu Jitsu training turns anyone into the absolute greatest fighter on earth capable of beating anyone. Bryan, you're unthrottled machismo and lack of humility are one of the classic reasons I DON'T study BJJ anymore.
Hey I have a great idea...lets all post our instructors names so then I can purposely misspel my intstructor's and you can bawl about how I must be a fake because "no legitimate student of BJJ would NOT know how to spell his teachers first name."
Like any good martial art I really enjoy BJJ. I just generally hate the morons who practice it. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Bryan
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
|
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
xingyiman wrote: |
Good land, what a self absorbed ahole.
Enjoy your pipe dreams. |
LMAO!
Are you angry because I laughed at your qualifications? How could you get "self-absorbed" out of a "lol"? I didn't say anything about myself.
What pipe dreams? I've hardly even revealed anything about myself, how do you know my plans? All I've said is that I'm a top player, and then I laughed about your comment about guard because it was so rediculous. How could you know anything about me from THAT?
Quote: |
For your information, my teacher's reversals were a bit more unorthadox than what you'd find the newbs doing. Completely a different way of approaching the gaurd and representative of a very high level of Judo skill. In other words something that, if your teacher knows he obviously hasn't let you in on it yet. |
Wow amazing bro, you got the secret techniques.
Quote: |
Oh for Pete's sake, I am talking to the wall here. Now go on out and get your asses handed to you. The sooner the better.
It's never ceases to amaze me how 6 months of Brazilian jiu Jitsu training turns anyone into the absolute greatest fighter on earth capable of beating anyone. Bryan, you're unthrottled machismo and lack of humility are one of the classic reasons I DON'T study BJJ anymore. |
LOL Yeah, my unthrottled machismo, as demonstrated where? I haven't talked about myself in this thread. Who has been training six months, not me? I'm not sure if you're drunk or something. You're making yourself look really silly on a public forum. I've talked to people by PM who are laughing at you.
Quote: |
Hey I have a great idea...lets all post our instructors names so then I can purposely misspel my intstructor's and you can bawl about how I must be a fake because "no legitimate student of BJJ would NOT know how to spell his teachers first name." |
Okay?? Sorry I don't know what you're talking about man, I've never mentioned your teacher nor mine. Is this like an inside joke I don't know about or something? You seem unbalanced bro, seek some help. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
catman

Joined: 18 Jul 2004
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
ublove

Joined: 03 Sep 2007
|
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
xingyiman wrote: |
I used to be a big fan of working from the top until my instructor showed me how easy it is to do a reversal (Something the Gracies' early opponents never seemed to catch onto). After that I got really paranoid and confined my grappling to the fun fighting in the school and began working on brute force power in striking. |
Hmmm... so your instructor taught you a reversal and now you're afraid to play top? And you disdain the guard? So what do you advocate if the fight goes to the ground... the dim mak?
No offense but the more you post, the more clueless you sound. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|