Korean Job Discussion Forums

[bassexpander]

While attending a TEFL course this past weekend, I sensed a very strong push to highlight "English as an international language." By that, I mean it felt like a push from a viewpoint that North American English is/should not be the norm by which we judge fluency. It was said more than once that there is now international confusion as to how competency in English should be judged. Was this opinion or fact? I am not sure.

Interestingly, most of the teachers at this, save one, where not North American. I don't remember that North American teacher speaking on this theme. According to others (one from Australia and one from Brazil), however, this is an international movement which is inevitable.

Whether or not this is what they meant, as a North American speaker, it felt like a precursor/sales job to accepting non-native speakers of English as English teachers. I should have mentioned it, and given them a chance to respond, but my mind was deep in thought at the time.

Any comments?

[Whistleblower]

Reading a popular learning teaching book, the author highlighted the fact that there is international English and there is more than one. He demonstrated that there is Englishes in the world (Singapore, England, Canada, America, Australia, NZ, etc) and that they all have their own nuances. He also concluded that the key to mastering English is making yourself understood and understanding various Englishes.

[jadarite]

[Bryan]

[Fat_Elvis]

I don't think North American English is always the norm. When I taught in Singapore British English was the norm, and American teachers I worked with had to teach British English. As English was introduced here by Americans in East Asia American English is considered the norm.

I wasn't present at the TEFL course in question, but if they were referring to the idea of World English(es) then this is hardly a new idea. Most English speakers in the world today are not native speakers.

When I ask my adult students who they speak English to outside the classroom, they mention Chinese, Japanese, Singaporeans, Thais, Indians and Russians more often than North Americans, British or Australians. So why the insistence on North American English?

I think from a pedagogical perspective there is nothing wrong with the idea of speakers of English as a second language (such as from India, the Philipines etc) teaching English here, as that's who Koreans often need to use the language with. From an economic perspective it's a little alarming as they might do me out of a job.

But of course the EFL industry in Korea isn't based very much on real need. Most of my students have never used English outside the classroom and they probably never will. Other factors, such as English's role as sign of social status, are more important. So I'm not too cocerned about NNESTs swamping the job market here and taking my job.

[CentralCali]

[Ya-ta Boy]

IF English continues as an international language it will inevitably separate itself from the standard set in a small neighborhood in London or New York (or wherever) after the varieties assert some influence on that end product. While Urdu and Portugese and other languages may have some influence, it will be a lot less than a native English-speaking country has.

There is a little bit of difference in grammar ('on' the weekend vs 'at' the weekend) but the struggle over accent will continue for a time. I would guess that an 'international' accent will develop. It's my expectation that the relatively uneducated will continue to speak their local accent and the educated will learn the international accent, which will be mainly North American.

We were debating this in the office today. As an American I distinguish between 'nasty' and 'Nazi' not only with the s/z sound but more importantly with the 'a'. My two Australian co-workers don't. Nahsty Nahzis just doesn't make it.

[Unposter]

I don't really like the title of this thread. It should be the push to teach International English. Of course, American English and British English and Canadian English and Australian English and all the other Englishes of the world can be a little hard to define, though all have certain unique traits.

In my class, I do my best to teach International English. If a student has been to a more British English speaking country, I would never mark wrong or criticize thier English. I try to familiarize myself with other rules of English and when possible I bring them up in class. My students are usually appreciative.

Now, designing International English textbooks becomes a much more thorny issue. What exactly is meant by international English and what should be left in and what should be left out is going to be very political. And, it is a field of land mines, I really don't feel like tredding right now.

I think we need to train our students to communicate and understand English as a general term to the best of their capabilities. This would include letting them know about the differences between English speaking countries and letting them know that we are tolerant about the differences and that they should be too. Being defensive about this issue is only going to hurt their education. Our students are better off not thinking that a paticular English or accent is better or more necessary than another no matter what maybe deep in our own hearts. Going down this road is only going to lead to larger problems in the long run.

I think one may say that they are North American and an expert in North American English without loosing sight that there is International English and that is what is best for our students. They really are just as likely to speak English to a German and even a Chinese as they are an American or a Canadian.

I would not get too worked up over the issue. But, I would try to be tolerant and try to learn as much as you can about other English. Knowledge is power especially in the education game.

[hang10]

[i4NI]

All I came to say was awesome avatar bassexpander !!!

[TECO]

Intelligibility - Whether one's utterances are intelligible is the bottom line. It may be Mrs. Suzuki's goal in life, to speak like the Queen of England, but it's not important for producing intelligible English that can be understood by people from different regions of the world.

Varieties of English - SAE - Standard American English (including the Canadian variety), RP (Received Pronunciation / BBC English), "Singlish" (Singaporean English), Australian English - where does it end? I don't know....but I'll try to highlight any differences in grammar, usage, vocab, and spelling between SAE and British English, for example, if I can but what about all the other varieties of English that exist? I have Ss asking me about phrases or words they've heard in Australia or the U.K. that I have no idea about: "I had me some gorgeous botties" or "I'm a bit crook today." WTF?

Lingua Franca - English is the lingua franca for travel and business. Whether it's SAE, RP, or "Singlish" isn't a factor as long as one's utterances are intelligible. For example, it's important for Ts to focus on Ss producing intelligible vowel sounds (grammar isn't as important, in my view - "Yesterday, I go to shopping" is intelligible, but if a speaking partner can't make out the sounds that are produced it won't matter if the grammar is correct or not).

The following comment is interesting and leads me to ask: How significant is the "Edutainment" value or "Novelty" value of having a Canadian, American, or British native speaking citizen teach them English? Or will the dollar be the bottom line here, with cheaper and possibly more qualified Indian and Filipino EFL teachers taking over in preference?

[tob55]

If memory serves me, I recall one of the speakers at a conference a couple of years ago saying that more than 150 Englishes exist in the world presently. So to emphasize a push towards International English seems like stating the obvious. English is already International, and the people straining on gnats are simply attempting to clarify their own preference or viewpoint.

Regarding the effect and influence this will have on Korea or any other place for that matter highly depends on the country and region. Do I think everyone should talk with a North American accent? Definitely not. Is it fair to target one regional language such as NA English and label it good, bad or marginal? Definitely not. Should other Englishes have the same opportunity to be used in reference to potential teachers around the world. Definitely yes.

I am not so worried about droves of Filipinos coming to Korea as much as I am worried that Korea consistently focuses on the wrong things in regards to the teaching and mastery of English. Now it appears, and this is purely speculation on my part, that Korea has chosen the route of cheap labor in order to bring in a mass of people who will do their best, but produce a lower level of quality than has been the rule up to this point. BTW, Korea has done its own self harm by allowing English to flounder in this country by attempting to mold the language around a Korean educational system that may work well in terms of Asian-based instruction, but does not work well in terms of non-Asian based instruction.

I have no criticism to offer against any English variant within the global community just as long as it focuses on the components of genuine English needed for mastery and use. As someone mentioned in a post just a few up from this, consider who was speaking, what they are promoting and for what reason. I am in contact with people all the time who criticize the approach of the TEFL program I am involved with, claiming that it is somehow low quality and not a good system, simply because it is not based on the models which come from the UK. Does that make the TEFL program invalid for some reason? No. It just means that everyone has their own preference and likes.

Bring on the masses, and people will begin to understand that in the end it is all about the money and who gets it. Forget quality instruction and what is best for the learner. For Koreans, the money has won out in this case. They cannot see past it, and they have no desire to see past it.

[Unposter]

I think people forget just how international Korea(ns) have become. They are in mass in the Philipeans, not just for English study but for retirement and business as well. There are huge Korean shipping companies in the Dominican Republic where all Koreans have visa waivers. I was impressed when I traveled with my Korean wife in India and discovered how many Indians spoke Korean in order to attract and better serve Korean tourists. Koreans are traveling all over the world and they are using their English.

Most Chaebol now require speaking tests for entrance and promotional tests. They are very serious about how knowledge of English is beneficial to their business.

I've dealt with local not national government officials who worry that they have to communicate in English on a regular basis but most English teachers in Korea speak too slowly and are too understanding of Konglish so they cannot get the kind of English practice they need for "comfortable" conversation from English-speaking countries. Especially, these days Korea is doing more and more business and government interaction with English speaking people from Asia, especially Australia and New Zealand, not to mention Singapore, India, and the Philipeans.

Anyway, to cut short, the need for English not just as a status symbol but as a real need is becoming more and more clear to Korea. And, I think that more than anything is part of the push for better English education in Korea.

And, it also means clearifying their needs. Their needs are for international English. The more Koreans become part of the world, the more they are realizing this. As teachers the best thing we can do is give them what they need.

[Kimbop]

North American English is the norm: the neutral north American accent is understood worldwide. Dozens of threads have already been hashed out on this.

Ever notice how New Zealanders and Brits, after being in Korea for several years, slow down and speak with an American accent in order for Koreans to understand them?

[koldijk]

Koreans love this "aspect" of English, i.e. that whatever I may try to correct them on, they'll... soon... be able to say that they're speaking "Korean-English"...

Which will reinforce their annoying habit of treating English as a subset of Korean...

For example:

The Olympic event of "archery" has become "western-style archery"

Now, we have a new commercial with "rushee and cashee" and finally, my favorite: "start" has 3 syllables, apparently...

One girl was talking about suh oop uh... I had no idea what she was trying to say... Until she wrote it out: "soup" ...

Where was I?

Oh yeah, in Korea someone is correct if they are older than you, give you money, and/or are your boss and finally if they have lived in America... "America has 51 states, SPECIFICALLY"

Oh!! Never change Korea... Ignorance is bliss!!