Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Voyeur]

Some discussions in other threads have led me to question what is a normal first year Hogwon or Public school gig for someone who has no experience or special qualifications? What would you say is a "decent" gig that someone can expect to realistically get?

*Hogwons*

Hours: The trend seems to be towards 7 or 8 hours on site and ~120 teaching hours a month. That is what I have seen. Probably not that much preparation. But you have to be there for more hours, regardless of whether you have stuff to do, than I remember 3-4 years back.

Pay: ~2.2 million

Vacation: 10 working days and national holidays.

*Public Schools*

Hours: 40 hours a week on-site, but only ~22 teaching hours. Do extra classes come out of that 40 hours on-site or will they make you stay even more? First-years do seem to have some prep to do. But maybe not 18 hours a week...

Pay: 1.8 million (or is 2.0 the start - do you need to get a TESOL to get the 2.0? Let's talk Seoul area as "typical" and not rual bonuses

Vacation: 2 weeks (is that 2 calendar weeks or 14 working days) + national holidays?

Is this about right?

[KoreanAmbition]

Voyeur,

I don't think you have your numbers correct.

To start, there is a thread going on this forum right now that is all about vacation time at public schools. I think you'll be surprised (as I was) at how good a lot of public school teachers have it. I truly didn't realize public school jobs gave that much time off.


Second,

I have a friend that works at a Hagwon in Mokdong from Monday to Friday and 9:30am to 7:30pm, with a few hours of break each day. I think she teaches for about 6.5 or 7 hours per day.

She makes 2.8 million won, has medical, pension and severance, an apartment (I think she takes cash instead of the free apartment because she wanted something nicer since it's her third year here) and she gets a fair bit of vacation because she's always going somewhere. She's been on close to 3 weeks of vacation in the last couple months.

Another Hagwon point:

There is a Hagwon job that is always listed on www.koreapot.com and it's 3.0 million per month and gives free housing. You work 4pm to 10pm Monday to Friday and then another 6 hours on Saturday. There is basically no prep time, and you get severance, medical and pension, as well as 10 days of vacation. If you don't want their housing, you can take 3.5 million won per month and get your own, but you still get all the other benefits. I talked to that recruiter a while back and she seemed to be decent, however I have no end results to prove that.

Regarding vacation at Hagwons, I don't know if it's 100% that all of them give 10 days though. I think there are still going to be some that offer less.

Also, negatives of Hagwons are that you can get screwed if you're with a bad one. You can lose any combination of pay, pension, medical or severance, and also get screwed with housing situations.

Pay from hagwons, in my opinion based on all the ads I read, can be pretty decent and definitely a lot higher than 2.2. I see them all the time on Dave's that offer more.

A lot of people don't realize they have a chance to get the "high end" of a salary range and therefore they don't make the sales pitch that can get them it. If you look right here at the jobs on Daves I bet you can find a lot of jobs that offer good salaries.

You have to remember a lot of people come to Korea and are willing to take anything. It shows with the way they submit their resume, the pictures they send, and their overall lack of professionalism in their job search. There are also other people who are good and trusting people that get screwed as well.

[nomad-ish]

[Voyeur]

This is obviously gonna be a subjective kind of process. But I'm trying to establish, however loosey goosey, a an average benchmark for what a resourceful, smart newbie can get *from overseas*. But not someone with extra qualifications or that is going to go to extreme measures to get the best job first year.

Most of the offers on he first page of Dave's are like 2.1 ish and feature 8+ hours a day on-site a far as I can tell.

[Voyeur]

[Young FRANKenstein]

[KoreanAmbition]

[KoreanAmbition]

Voyeur,

I just looked at the list on Dave's right now. I looked at the first like 15 job ads.

I would say almost 1 in 3 have a job offering 2.4 or higher as a top end.

Just because it is a range doesn't mean you can't get it. A newbie can get those jobs... just sell him/her-self.

There is an EXCESS SUPPLY of teacher jobs out there.

There is a SHORTAGE of teachers.

If someone can't get a job to offer them more than the bare minimum than I think they aren't looking hard enough, they're selling themselves short, or they don't understand how to sell themselves.

[KoreanAmbition]

Voyeur,

The girl with the job in Mokdong gets a free apartment but she gives that up and takes money instead of housing (on top of the 2.8 million salary)because she's in her third year and wanted a nicer place. As I said though, she seems to get a fair bit of vacation.

She was back in Canada and Jamaica for 2 weeks recently... came back here for like 2 weeks and then was off to the Phillipines for a week. That right there is more vacation than almost any other vacation gives the whole year long.


As for the job on koreapot that pays 3.0 million with housing, or 3.5 million without housing. Actually hours from 4-10 Monday to Friday and then 6 hours Saturday are all teaching. You show up 30 minutes prior to shift and then teach out of the books they give you. You show up, do 30 minutes prep, then teach for 6 hours with minimal breaks. It's basically the same situation as CDI for the most part from what you told me.


There are 2 types of people that come to Korea.

1) They don't have good qualifications but they want a job, and can get a large portion of jobs out there.

2) People with experience or qualifications that would like to get something better than the low-end jobs offered.

I believe MOST people sell themselves short on what they try to get, and I see it all the time here on Dave's.

I came from overseas, and went for a job that was something that normally I shouldn't have gotten. I got lucky, but if I hadn't tried for it I would never have gotten it. I think a lot of people sell themselves short, and don't realize that the schools NEED them more than the teachers need the schools.

[Voyeur]

Got to admit this looks nice for a newbie:


-------------

1. QUALIFICATIONS AND REQUIREMENTS
The applicants must:
- Be a native speaker of English (from Australia, Canada, Ireland, New Zealand, the U.K., and the U.S.A.);
- Hold at least a B.A., B.Ed., or B.Sc. degree;
- Have professionalism.
- Be professional, enthusiastic, and ready to face the adventures of living in Korea.
Preferences:
- B.A. / B.Ed. or above in areas relating to English language teaching;
- ESL teaching certificates (TESOL, TEFL, CELTA etc);
- At least one year experience in teaching English as a second/foreign language;

2. Monthly Pay
- 2,371,000 ~ 2,556,000 million won per month depending on the applicant�s teaching experiences and qualifications (approximately 20 class hours per week; no work on weekends; 6-8 weeks (most likely, 8 weeks) paid vacation ).

3. ACCOMMODATION AND BENEFITS
- Fully-furnished single dormitory apartment/2 rooms with internet, hot water, large TV; etc.
- Severance bonus upon the completion of the contract;
- Medical Insurance & National Pension: 50% paid by the employer;
- 6-8 weeks paid vacation within the contract period (most likely, 8 weeks paid vacation).

---------------

Preference is for non-newbies, wonder if they will take people without experience. Lots of openings.

You do seem to be making the point well hat "average" is irrelevant because there is no need for even the "average" guy to accept the average.

[KoreanAmbition]

I think the employers have a lot of advantage in this business because a HUGE percentage of the people looking at job ads are first-time workers in the industry. That's why all the jobs say they want experience; so that they can lowball the newbies. Even back in Canada and the USA, if you look for jobs in most industries they all ask for experience.

As someone out of the business industry I can say that when you design a job ad you always ask for the GOLD and are willing to accept the silver and the bronze contestants.

If an employer asks for someone with no experience then the workers that have experience won't go for it; they think the pay won't be high enough and the job responsibility/treatment will be below them. Therefore, employers say that they want someone that has experience of 2-3 years or something of the sort. But in fact, they are just praying to get that.

Look, when the tech-bubble burst several years ago, every business job ad said "2-3 years experience" and they meant it. Why? Because tons of people were out of jobs and the companies could pick and choose from people with experience.

I have been monitoring the job board here on Dave's for 5 months steady, and there is NO shortage of job postings.

You are slowly even starting to see higher job offers popping up here and there. Why? Because schools are at risk of not having teachers to teach their classes, and thus the school runs the risk of losing a lot of potential revenue. The owners know they were squeezing the teachers really tight before, and they can still make a lot of money even by increasing their pay a little. Some schools realize they need teachers and are succumbing to the problem of not getting a teacher. The visa regulations don't help their case much either.

Voyeur,

Test the waters. Post your resume here on Dave's website on Monday. Make a new email address just for this test so you can get rid of it when this is over. Make the heading of your resume post as "Experienced ESL Teacher Needs Job in South Korea".

I gaurantee you get 20 recruiters to email you with job offers by Friday.

In fact, the only way to get them to stop will be to erase that email address and thank God that you didn't use your real one.

[KoreanAmbition]

[bodybydada]

[Young FRANKenstein]

[Voyeur]