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| Would you support gender-free, "liberated" restrooms? |
| I Advocate This without Reservation; Let Us Do It |
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13% |
[ 6 ] |
| Why Not? I Can Live with It |
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25% |
[ 11 ] |
| No, I Would Rather Not |
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27% |
[ 12 ] |
| Not No, But Hell No; I Will Oppose This |
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22% |
[ 10 ] |
| I Remain Undecided on This |
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11% |
[ 5 ] |
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| Total Votes : 44 |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: Gender-free, "Liberated" Restrooms... |
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Advocates argue it will break down all gender issues (for heterosexuals, homosexuals, straights, bisexuals, gays, lesbians, transgendered people, and transsexuals). Progress.
This came up (and remains up) on my campus recently. When I clarified "Do you mean that you will establish a gender-free alternative for those who choose this?" No, was the response. All restrooms must become gender-free.
This means sharing all biological activities, including, for females (straight, bisexual, or lesbian) menstruation. This means sharing in the long lines that oftentimes come attached to women's restrooms. How does this strike you?
Well...? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:12 am Post subject: |
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Are there urinals in these gender-free bathrooms?
I don't know if this will break down gender barriers. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:17 am Post subject: |
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No. Urinals are male-specific social constructions that reduce women to "the Other," thereby oppressing them. Toilets only. (This based on the experimental restrooms that advocates have actually created and not merely based on the theoretical gender-free restrooms they propose in various committees.)
How would you feel about using such a restroom in your daily life, Kuros? |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| I don't much care, but if it were implemented, chicks wouldn't be going to the washroom in pairs anymore I bet. That's strictly to gossip and touch up makeup away from the guys, in situations where we want to look good ( it never, ever happens at the office)- kinda pointless if men will be in there |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
No. Urinals are male-specific social constructions that reduce women to "the Other," thereby oppressing them. Toilets only. (This based on the experimental restrooms that advocates have actually created and not merely based on the theoretical gender-free restrooms they propose in various committees.)
How would you feel about using such a restroom in your daily life, Kuros? |
Well,
When I was at the Kayaking/Canoeing Olympic venue out in Shen-yi, the authorities had constructed very nice port-a-potties. But they were unisex. So basically, a bunch of guys were put to wait in line for a hole in the ground. If they had had a piss trough for men only, this would have speeded up the line for men of course, and it would've taken the men out of the port-a-potty line.
As a male, I feel it is my anatomical right never to have to wait to go #1 when someone else is going #2. So if these changes means the abolition of urinals, this experimentation in gender equality has gone too far. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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Many bars in Korea have these. As far as I know it wasn't done to promote any gender equality agenda. They came about because the bars were too small (or cheap) to install 2. When I was a newbie, back in '94, I was often called on by a female co-worker to do guard duty at the door to keep other males out while she did her thing. Korean guys never had to guard the door for the Korean women. Conclusion: Koreans are less uptight about bodily functions than at least one American woman. A second example are the hwa-jang-shil ajummas who come in and mop the floor right behind your feet while you're taking a whiz. It freaked me out the first couple of times, but then I got used to it. Conclusion: People can adjust to it.
Final Conclusion: It's time the US joined an advanced country like Korea. It ain't no big deal.
In the situation Gopher is talking about, I'd support it if a survey was taken of the people likely to use it and go by majority decision. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| peppermint wrote: |
| ...kinda pointless if men will be in there. |
This is exactly the kind of cultural change that advocates are hoping to promote through this measure. To clarify my own position: I get it; I get where the advocates are coming from. I will vote in support of any proposal that creates the gender-free restroom as an alternative to male- and female-gendered restrooms. I just cannot support forcing everyone into this. It seems, paradoxically, oppressive.
________
People will say one thing, on whether they support it in the abstract and would in fact use it, in surveys, Ya-ta Boy. But I suspect their actual real-life behavior would reveal their real-life feelings on the matter.
Take the South Korean example you just cited where the female asked you to do "guard duty" to, and I believe this is the elephant in the room on this issue, assert and protect the minimal privacy standards she felt entitled to as a woman using a public restroom. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| People will say one thing, on whether they support it in the abstract and would in fact use it, in surveys, Ya-ta Boy. |
If true, that's their problem. As I said, give the people who use the building a chance to voice their opinion and go with the majority. This is a university campus you are talking about. Everyone involved is an adult. Respect their opinion.
PS: I suspect a lot of males would also object on the basis of their privacy. A sense of privacy is not exclusive to females. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Respect their opinion. |
And disregard the minority's sensibilities? This is not a building-specific proposal, by the way, but a campus-wide one with the wider ambition and intent to restructure the entire state-university system and, from there, advocates hope and dream, the entire society at large. Advocates are not working in a departmental context but with entire colleges at the dean's level.
I am also very well aware that males and not merely females have notions of privacy. And I never said or implied otherwise. I think you are just nitpicking my words. |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| peppermint wrote: |
| ...kinda pointless if men will be in there. |
This is exactly the kind of cultural change that advocates are hoping to promote through this measure. To clarify my own position: I get it; I get where the advocates are coming from. I will vote in support of any proposal that creates the gender-free restroom as an alternative to male- and female-gendered restrooms. I just cannot support forcing everyone into this. It seems, paradoxically, oppressive.
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I don't really have a problem with it, under the circumstances, but I wonder- will there be separate change and shower rooms at the college gym facilities? |
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krats1976
Joined: 14 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| No, thank you. I HATE sharing a bathroom w/ men. Gross. |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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Then we can all play footsies.
| krats1976 wrote: |
| No, thank you. I HATE sharing a bathroom w/ men. Gross. |
Not even with Larry Craig? |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| As a man, I couldn't care less. I don't know how woman are going to accept it with guys pissing all over the toilet seat and "shaking" urine all over the place. |
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friendoken
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Wouldn't bother me at all. As an aside, a school in Thailand just built a separate washroom for transgenders. I think it may be a first, even in Thailand. |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
| As a man, I couldn't care less. I don't know how woman are going to accept it with guys pissing all over the toilet seat and "shaking" urine all over the place. |
You're kidding right? They'll complain more about having the seat always up. The fact is women's public restrooms are filthier than men's. |
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