Korean Job Discussion Forums

[hamlet712]

Okay, apparently way too many people were finding it hilarious that I made the comment(s)

1) it is our job to do as our bosses say
2) it is not up to us to question thier decision, it is our job to do what they ask.

Now, you can call me naive, clueless, a bleeping moron (as many of you will, or already have)

But I am asking in all seriousness (and again let me reiterate that I am talking about perfectly acceptable requests that fall into the regular duties of a teacher, NOT the wrong/illegal/unpaid extra work requests)

Why do people think that in Korea it is not our responsibility to do as our bosses ask, when if we didn't listen to our bosses back home we would be fired for insubordination?

Yes, many of you may still be choked or what have you at my last thread. It was a build up of anger I'd been harboring for a while at blatant hostility towards the country and my wife's people. I apologise for being as brash as I was.

But this is a serious question, I am a Canadian, not Korean, I am asking a serious question, and I am trying not to be as negative as I was in my last thread. I have left the flame war I started on the original thread and asking this hoping to get serious discussion on it, because frankly it baffles me that so many westerners are thinking I am crazy for having this as an ingrained work ethic more.

Serious discussion on this matter would be awesome.

[ytuque]

[ttompatz]

[Yu_Bum_suk]

Tonight I'm taking two scripts home with me to revise and edit because I want some absolutely wonderful, brilliant students to do their best at a speech and drama contest. One of the scripts was my idea to change and the other one was my CT's request (she's ten years older than me). I'm happy to, because the students are awesome, my CT's very supportive and hardworking herself, and my school's been great to me.

At my last job I would have done it if it was for one of the five KETs because she respected and appreciated me. I wouldn't have bothered for the others. If the boss had asked me to do something like that I would have said sure and then 'lost' them, or perhaps sabatoged the scripts.

And you know why? Because respect is a two-way street. I do what the boss / prinicipal / VP / teacher senior to me asks when he / she deserves it. If your contract says you're a 'teacher' but you get treated as anything but one, I have no trouble acting like anything but a teacher.

[RACETRAITOR]

The big difference here is that Korean bosses are more likely to make strange, awkward, outrageous requests.

[hamlet712]

[/quote] Your work duties are spelled out in your contract. You are not required to blindly follow your boss's instructions here or back in North America.

Do you wear knee pads when you talk to your boss?[/quote]

Ok listen, not EVERYTHING is spelled out in a working contract. A contract is used to spell out pay, hours, vacations, etc.

And last I checked we don't really sign employment contracts back home, I never have.

If your boss says "Hey Johnny, I need you to go through this book sometime today and .........." are you really going to say no because it does not say in your contract "teachers may be asked to go through a book and ............."

I mean its as simple as this, we are teachers, sometimes we are asked to do things to help out the boss, other teachers, or the school. Why would you refuse to do that.

To me that suggest lack of pride in the school, or your job. It sounds like you are above it. I was a teacher back home, I said yes to reuquests when I could and I said No to them when I couldnt. I was aksed MANY times to drive the bus, and some of the times I didnt want to, but because I cared for my employers and the students i took three hours out of my day to drive them and watch them play thier game.

I am not talking about washing toilets, I am talking about helping out your bosses and school with simple requests that are not spelled out in the contract because the contract can not, nor was it designed to, include every possible thing that may be asked of you in your duties as a teacher.

And when I was a cook, I was ASKED politely to clean the toilet. It wasn't my job, but someone had to do it or the place would smell like crap, and the customers would complain. My boss thanked me with a steak dinner as a thank you. I didn't think it was beneath me to do it is my point.

[okokok]

And if you do one, 10 more will come your way.

[hamlet712]

[hamlet712]

[EzeWong]

I once saw a workplace with this situation.

One of the waitresses told a manager that the bathroom was broken and it needed to be tightened. Then when he came back she was on the phone. He handed her the wrench to fix it. She gave him a look and told him "that's not my job".

Wow was he GD po'ed.

He swore, and almost lopped her head off with her own cellphone. (Btw. this guy is normally cool and calm as the shick quatro).

Here's the thing. You do what you're told. When any of you assume a role of managment, you'll understand what I mean. OBVIOUSLY you don't become gophers to get coffee and pickup laundry, but you do what's in reasonable respect to your employer.

You don't frigin bite the hand that feeds you. If something is within your ability that you CAN do, and you SHOULD do for the greater good, I don't see the need b1tch all the time. Which is what I see a lot of... on Dave's.... and in life.

Come on, let's be reasonable. If my principal asked me to pick up his dry cleaning cause he has to run to a meeting, I'd do it. Because 1) I can and 2) it's for the greater good.

Obviously if hes making me go out to buy some dumb crap like his gimbap snacks, while he's watching tv... he knows where he can take that gimbap and shove it.

[Kimchieluver]

I did a lot of extra stuff for one of my former hogwans. I took report cards home and filled them out over the weekend. I worked the occasional Saturday (very few) helping the boss and K-teachers hand out hagwon flyers. Where I put my foot down was calling students at their homes after I had a 30 class/week schedule. They said to do it only for 20 minutes before I went home. I tried it and it was a disaster. I refused to do it and the directors backed off. Did I mention my pay was always being delayed in some way or another. When I asked if I could have a Friday evening and Monday off. They flat out refused. I had given them at least 100 hours of free time (not including marking report cards), and they wouldn't even give me 8 hours off.

I also have found out the hard way that putting in a lot of extra effort and loyalty does not pay off like it does in the west. Sure I work 100%, but I don't do a whole lot more other than the mandatory volunteer stuff my province has the EPIK teachers do. Loyalty, time served, and hard work don't add up to much in this province with EPIK. They stick to the contract and if you want to deviate it from it in the slightest, they always say a resounding no. However, if they deviate from it, (and the way the contract is so vague, it's not hard to), they think everything is fine.

Bottom line - 110% effort, loyalty and doing extra things for the good of the students pays off very little when it comes to renegotiating or a favor here and there. Sometimes it does pay off, but no where near what you put in.

[jkelly80]

My P has asked me to do repairs, janitorial duties, and after school (5pm) sports clubs, all without pay. I did none of this, and he backed down.

I signed a contract to come here that delineates what my job duties are, all the while possessing a skill (native English fluency and undergrad coursework in ESL instruction) that is completely lacking in every single other employee at my workplace (a public school). Mr. Sweet Prince
obviously have a skewed, authoritarian, top down notion of manager/employee relations, which is OK if you live in a society where people are bred to submit/obey (Koreatown), but it disastrous just about anywhere else in the developed world. This isn't budae and I'm not Korean, so save your macho posturing when you soap your buddies naked ass in the sauna, ajeossi-nim.


In the West, a boss that acted this way would soon find himself without employees. Koreans in the hagwon/hakkyo game realize this but like to bluster and bark orders because they're all too aware of the scarcity of labor in their industry, so they hope to intimidate and threaten weak-spined foreign workers.

IMO, they can, as a group, go f*ck themselves. They don't have the leverage, but they want us to think they do.

This is not biting the hand that feeds. This is a business agreement, and our employ makes our bosses money. Sack up for God's sake.

[cruisemonkey]

[ttompatz]

[RACETRAITOR]