Korean Job Discussion Forums

[justin moffatt]

Two more agencies to add to the blackmail list for part time corporate positions.

Jungchul B2B and Pagoda Outsourcing:

1) Does not honor contractual agreement regarding agreed payment amount, date of payment, and length of contract.
2) Carefully check your payment deposits and badger them for account statements.
3) If you dispute or request the above, they will undermine you with the contracted corporate company (usual tactic by Korean agencies), as a means to terminate your contract with them.

Recently, I have noticed a general pattern of large agencies nickle and diming for payments and refusing to pay on time (more than usual). Perhaps this financial crisis is hitting them hard as well (or it's yet another excuse to add to their infinite list of bullsh*t).

[VanIslander]

Please undertsand there is a difference between a chain school and a franchise. A chain school is a bunch of school within an organization such that practices within location MAY be transfered to others; a franchise is an independent small business that buys books and a curriculum and pretty much follows it but deviates where it wants to, and certainly is not part in any way with other schools int he same franchise. They pay their fee and get their materials and run with them. personnel issues within frnachise schools OF COURSE differ widely.

So it should be no surprise that I spent 3.5 lovely years working for a Jungchul FRANCHISE school on Geoje Island. The director has NO contact with other Jungchuls except for a yearly competition in Seoul (I went to the first one they ever held, back in '04. Nobody knew who each other was and it really was seen as pointless by two directors I chitchatted with.)

One Jungchul may be great, since they are independent mom and pop franchised businesses , and another Jungchul may be terrible. That's the way it is.

I cannot speak at all for chain schools however. And I hear chain schools are under more pressure to conform to curricula and have some uniform personnel policies.

[justin moffatt]

For the record, I did indicate PART TIME CORPORATE POSITIONS (in Seoul).

[big_fella1]

Hi Justin, this is one of my favourite rants at the moment. The problem is many recruiting firms are struggling with a lack of teachers. Those that have a high overhead may not last the next 12 months. Less teachers means less billing hours, which in turn means less that they can skim off the top, hence delayed payment and trying to avoid payment. Further some recruiters are getting contracts at ludicrously low rates leaving them no choice but to screw the instructor. (Yes a teacher shortage means hourly rates should go up!!!)

I have heard consultants in Korea demand a 50% payment up front, that could be one option. Not working for these agencies is another.

There is a very long sticky on this, moderators can we please have a new one?

I still believe foreigners on visas that allow them to legally teach/consult in companies should target SME's directly and leave the big companies to the recruiters who can convince an E2 to work for 50K or less per hour.

[suadente]

VanIslander you may be of the wrong impression. Some of the major schools in Korea have branches, franchises, as well as 'recruiting companies' that send privates teachers directly to other companies.

In my experience, some are reputable and trustable, but others are not.

I hate Pagoda with a passion after a year of direct employment with them, though I must admit, I never used their 'business english' service, to be fair.

I'm guessing that quite a few people will read this thread. I hired a teacher through a recruiter a few months ago, and I want to point out that many of the jobs are post-paid, and don't require a contract between the employer and the recruiter, as also many don't require a contract between the recruiter and the teacher.

I could have just not simply paid, and there would be nothing that the recruiter that I hired could do to me. A phone conversation is not a legally binding contract. And, the teacher had no power to legally fix the situation.

In the end, I did pay, though I must honestly admit late, but if I didn't pay the Recruiter, the teacher probably wouldn't have been paid, and would have had no legal right to claim the money for the hours spent.

Working through Recruiters for independant work (Assuming it's legal, those of you on E-2's, don't do it! It's too risky now.) is risky, still.

Get your contracts signed first. After being on the opposite side of the table, I have realized how difficult the situation is.

[suadente]

Oh, and sorry for the delay...

But I paid the recruiter 60,000 won per hour, and the teacher only got slighter than half of that amount.

Whereas a while back, I got 70k per hour without a recruiter.

If you have the ability to do privates legally, don't use recruiters.

[madhusudan]

Damn, I just took a job from Pagoda outsourcing yesterday. I guess I'll just keep an close eye on them and see how it goes.

Anyone else been having a negative experience with them?

[Young FRANKenstein]

[OneWayTraffic]

[justin moffatt]

One Way Traffic:

How long did you work for them? I have worked for both companies for close to 9 months. Jungchul played games from the beginning regarding honoring payment. In fact, I recommended a colleague who soon quit because they refused to confirm his agreed hourly rate.

My next step is to make their life a living hell. Jungchul just cancelled my contract without notice (the contract with their corporate company has 8 months left), claiming that the contracted company cancelled the contract. Ironically, my students warned me that Jungchul was slandering me, to which, I informed them of the payment issues.

Pagoda changed the conditions of my contract mid-contract. One student decided to change the pre-set scheduled time of classes without notice. Pagoda responded by cancelling my contract. I informed them that they had to pay me for the remainder of the contract. They panicked and gave me another student during the scheduled time. However, near the end of the contract they changed the conditions regarding payment of the contract. Once again, I informed the student of these issues and requested them to complain to Human Resources of his company (the contracted company).

The end result is this. DON'T TRUST ANY KOREAN RECRUITING AGENCY LARGE OR SMALL. I have noticed over the last while, that agencies are getting more cut-throat and deceptive in trying to save money. We seriously need to start blacklisting these companies and forcing them to honor contracts, especially when the demand for qualified and experienced instructors is high.

[justin moffatt]

Young Frankenstein:

Most corporations go to these outsourcing agencies because of name value (Pagoda, YBM, Jungchul, WSI, etc.). Unfortunately, these agencies are sending them unqualified instructors (who will work for less pay). Many corporations become frustrated with repeatedly having unqualified instructors, and start labelling ALL instructors as incompetent.

Not surprisingly, in virtually every corporate position I have had with mid-to-large size corporations through recruiters, my students have shared stories on how "unqualified", "inexperienced", or "incompetent" their previous instructor was. Hence, why I only accept and push recruiters for higher salaries to clean up their previous messes and deal with these disgruntled students. On the other hand, I also know how demanding and annoying corporations can be from the adminstration end. Not to mention to whiny Korean students who love to complain about any damn thing . . .

[Young FRANKenstein]

[justin moffatt]

Just curious how much real legal leeway or leverage I have here. Sounds like if I don't have a written contract (other than e-mail agreements), I may have little chance of getting my salary and compensation for ending the contract early. Would the Labour Board even look at my case? Is there an equivalent to Small Claims Court in Korea?

[justin moffatt]

UPDATE:

Just received a threatening phone call from the Korean American Jungchul supervisor. He threatened to take his "six lawyers to court against me". I responded that I had already attained legal counsel as well. He retorted, "Let's meet man to man and settle this". He continued to threaten me with physical harm, and sent threatening mesages.

In response, I have e-mailed a list of demands regarding payment and compensation for cancelling the contract. I have suggested that I would attend to the Labour Board, Crown Prosecutors Office (lawsuit), Seoul Tax Office, Ministry of Immigration (they hired non F2/F4 visa holders), and my media contacts if necessary.

If anyone has any other advice on how to get leverage here, I would appreciate it.

[Young FRANKenstein]