Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Justin Hale]

[tomato]

[tacon101]

wow so this thread is a big ole angry mess...

mindmetoo i think your holier than thou because holiness is a crock of sh** attitude is pretty rude. you're not going to unconvert the masses that way...take a lesson from dawkins and be nicer about telling folks they might not be looking at all the pieces of the puzzle or might be making their own pieces to make their lives feel better. or at least use a friendly british accent

folks generally dont like bullies (unless they're named GOD)

that being said:
QUESTION FOR FOLKS WITH FAITH:
why would you like anyone who puts the unbaptized, murderers, unbelievers , folks of other faiths, and really ANYONE in a flaming pit for all of eternity?
and where might this pit be?

[IncognitoHFX]

[mindmetoo]

[mindmetoo]

Tomato I printed out your gish stuff and read it over coffee. An excellent, excellent summary and a great read.

[Rteacher]

Philosophically, I think the crux of all the creation issues comes down to this: While God is both personal and impersonal, the (eternally youthful) personal feature is the original source of everything - including all laws of nature.

The Vedic literatures describe that in the spiritual world there is agreement among all the living beings - finite parts-and-parcels of the complete Infinite Being - that (despite individual differences) they should work cooperatively for the satisfaction of the Supreme Person.

By contrast, living beings in the material world - especially in this age - are prone to disagreement, dissension, and impersonalism.

There are 4 stages of attack of maya [illusion]; viz.: 1 stage is that a man wants to be a protagonist of religion, 2 is that man neglects religiosity and tries to improve his economic development, 3) is to be protagonist of sense enjoyment & when a man is frustrated in all the above mentioned stages he comes to 4, which is impersonalism, and thinks himself one with the Supreme. This last attack is very serious and fatal [to spiritual progress in this life...]
www.prabhupada1967.com/archives/2004_10_17_sangalog_archive.html

In Bhagavad-gita, the Supreme Enjoyer (Krishna) explains that all work should ultimately be done for His pleasure, otherwise fruitive work only binds one to the stringent laws of material nature.

Basically, our constitutional position is to serve God - and the only other option is to serve the illusion that we can become God ourselves.

The more that scientists (under an impersonalist conception) work to conquer (and become the Lords of) nature, the more that they will subject themselves - and their supporters - to complex karmic reations.

The leaders of the society must try to understand this point, that godlessness cannot give any relief to the human society. The whole world is so made that the living entity must serve Krishna; otherwise he has to serve maya. It is the same example that the citizen of the state has to render service to the government in order to become a good citizen.

If one does not abide by the government laws then he is put into prison walls and forced to serve the government more tediously. So if we do not perform sacrifice, yajna, which means method of activities for pleasing the lord; as you know it is stated in Bhagavad-gita that any work not done for the satisfaction of the Lord must entangle the doer in the complication of the stringent laws of material nature
http://www.prabhupada1971.com/2006_10_15_prabhupadaletters1971_archive.html

[tomato]

[itaewonguy]

[Rteacher]

And how many animals, insects, and other sentient beings do most humans routinely mame and kill - sometimes systematically?

Karma is only generated by humans - then the same souls descend to lower species to suffer the results of the sinful deeds they perpetrated in the human form (and scientific advancement without spiritual guidance often makes life more miserable for lower life forms ...)

The laws of karma are staggeringly intricate, but the math involved is a snap for the infinitely intelligent being who created it all.

[Underwaterbob]

[Underwaterbob]

[Rteacher]

I don't know all the intricacies of karma, but basically there is no bad reaction for killing when it's necessary for survival.

Reportedly, Jesus and the Essenes recommended prolonged fasting to rid the body of large (serpentine) tape worms.

Sadhus in India generally tolerate mosquitos.

Poisonous snakes and spiders that pose a serious threat to bite can be killed without much - if any - reaction.

The point is that the material world is intended to be basically miserable, and the stringent laws of nature ensure that it be so.

Disease, birth, old age, and death are all alien to our real nature. If we want to experience neverending happiness we have to go to the spiritual universes where planets, people and relationships exist forever.

[tacon101]

[Rteacher]

Theists shouldn't unnecessarily disturb people, but there can be unity in diversity among sincere people of faith (as long as the goal is to love God -not mammon.)

Atheists (to varying degrees) are offensive in their organized attempts to dash faith in a personal God and by attacking religion per se - rather than fanatical or materialistic abusers of religion.

In my understanding of Vedanta philosophy, everyone's duty is to serve the unlimited Complete Whole, the Original Person that we're all minute parts of, and our own real enjoyment is contingent on pleasing the Supreme Person by pure devotion (just like leaves of a tree are nourished when water is poured on the tree's root - not on the individual leaves...)