Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Scotticus]

[ddeubel]

[Poemer]

[Scotticus]

I love that I have grown adults in the 21st century, apparently seriously, supporting the idea that the poet is merely a vessel for some higher power to pour forth verse. Wow.... just wow.

[Koveras]

[Poemer]

[IncognitoHFX]

[Scotticus]

[Poemer]

I didn't miss anything, if your definition of talent is what it seems to be based on your line of thought.

Cornfed referenced the importance of the "outside" in the process of poetic creation. You claimed that ANY good poet would say he was wrong. I pulled two names off the top of my head that wouldn't. You claimed that there is "no invisible hand." I say that the invisible, something apart from the ego, IS present in almost all great poems.

So, I guess if you want to define what you mean when you say "talent," we can discuss whether I missed anything.

[moosehead]

albeit for me to respond to this -

I've yet to read any of these posts mentioning - inspiration -

am not sure why - ?

did you forget about it? it can't be you don't believe in it - ? poets are diehard romantics, after all.

whether the inspiration comes from a person, place, event, feeling - it's what gives motivation, what drives desire, what pushes the limit, up up and over the top.

I could never describe how to find it but I can tell you as certain as life and death itself - when you are inspired, you damn well will recognize it

peace.
always nice to know some literate folks are around

[southern boy]

[poet13]

sniff sniff

[blurgalurgalurga]

To weigh in re: poetry and whether people with not much talent should bother with the stuff, I'd have to say that a world filled with rotten poetry is infinitely preferable to a world filled with nothing but spectators and a few gifted professionals. I totally disagree with the notion that Louie should 'give up,' just because a lot of people don't like his, uh, work.

Keep at it, I'd say, no matter how hideous your skills are: it's better than cringing from a fear of sucking, and worshipping dead poets who nobody will ever top.

I'd say that applies to any art form, except for busking, which should not be displayed unless it's pretty good.

[Cornfed]

[Poemer]

About "talent"-- The single most important talent that a poet can have is the ability to remove himself from the poem, to allow the poem to say what it wants to say. Spicer likened a good poet to a good radio, a good radio is capable of picking up a signal and transmitting it, free from added interference, to the listeners ear. A poet needs to let the poem say what it wants to say, which is almost never what the poet intended. The intent of the poet matters little, in fact it can be harmful. Spicer also used to say that when he wrote a line and then thought to himself, "wow, that's great, that's exactly what I wanted to say." he was immediately suspicious of that line. Great poets are good at buying the ingredients and setting the table, but the poem does the real cooking. It is the job of the poet to stay out of the way and notice when he is spoiling the broth. So, if we think of "talent" as someone consciously employing some special gifts to write a poem, for example having a great rhythmic awareness, or an uncanny ability to choose the right word, or a strong sense of imagery, none of this talent will ever help them write a good poem if they aren't able to accept the invisible hand when they sit down and write. It has been my experience that thinking too much while writing is just about the worst thing you can do. So, I amend my previous list: You cannot just will a good poem into being, no matter how much TALENT, hard work, study, practice, workshopping, etc, you put into it. The talent that matters is the ability understand that the poem has something to say, the poet is just an assistant.

About inspiration-- 18th century German and British poetry is not my favorite kind. I'm not a romantic. If by inspiration, you mean those moments when the language just flows, as if a dam has burst open and the poem just writes itself, then yes, I believe in inspiration. If you mean a moment when the poet says, "Aha, I know what I want to say and how I will write it" then see the above point.

About "keeping at it"-- Poetry is an art, like painting or playing an instrument. Anybody can paint a picture, play an instrument, or write a poem. The difference is that poetry out of all the art forms, is probably the least appreciated. "Lots" of people go to concerts, and art galleries, but hardly anyone reads poetry. People are relatively familiar with what music is supposed to sound like or what a painting is supposed to look like, they hear and see these things every day, but they have no idea what a poem really is because, by comparison, they rarely encounter them. Far fewer people think they are artists just because they painted a picture once or consider themselves accomplished musicians because they played flute in high-school than really believe they are good poets because they write bad paragraphs that are broken up into verse form. When is the last time someone posted on Dave's and said, "Hey listen to this sound file, I'm a great player! What you don't think so? Well, I have a big record contract, so ha!" The literary arts have, like maybe, a gajillion more pretenders and hack hobbyists than all the other arts combined, just to be specific.

Just because every educated human without severe arthritis or a disfiguring thumb injury can pick up a pen and put words down on the page, it doesn't mean they are poets and should go around showing their poems to anyone who will read them and beg for validation. Everybody should read and write poetry if they want to, there are benefits. The problem is when people have illusions about the quality of their work, which should be written and kept in a drawer or shown to a friend for fun, not paraded around as if it were of artistic worth.