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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| your interpreting this [...] as mere gratuitous politics [...] That signals something more than mere campaign talk. |
It confuses me how you could pull the exact opposite meaning out of what I have very clearly said. In the past, I've sometimes noticed people get so hypnotized by my avatar that they willfully choose to disregard the content of my posts. I'm not sure if that's the case here, or if there is some other problem involved. I sincerely advise you to have it looked at, though. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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My apologies, Bobster. This was the position I had in mind when I referred to "mere gratuitous politics," above...
| daskalos wrote: |
| My take is that Obama is talking up a position for Powell in his administration in order to maximize the influence of the endorsement with undecided voters. |
Please relax on "some other problem," etc. Neither one of us are mentally ill or in need of "being looked at." Agreed? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
C. Powell to Senate Foreign Relations Committee, which approved his nomination unanimously. Does not sound like an incompetent nominee to me.
He had more competency than they, Kuros. He had served three presidents before assuming his post under W. Bush |
Its pretty telling that you're selling Powell's credentials and not his achievements.
He was SecState for four years. And yet you point to things that had happened before that.
Hrmmmm . . . |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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Mmmn, it really did seem you were addressing me rather than deskalos.
For the record, I had more in mind something along the lines of checking the prescription on eyeglasses rather than some more global perceptual problem ... that big ol' peace sign does gives some people the willies, though, I admit. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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Kuros: you spoke on qualifications; I listed his qualifications.
| Kuros wrote: |
He was SecState for four years.
Hrmmmm . . . |
Further, this post suggests you think I am concealing something about C. Powell. You apparently have an allegation or a series of allegations in mind of his crimes or what-have-you, over and above your scapegoating him for the Vietnamese massacre, and you think I am failing to mention them.
He served in the W. Bush Administration. He approached it enthusiastically. But nine months in, D. Cheney et al. more or less shoved him aside -- especially in the discussions leading into the Iraqi War. He remained in the adminstration -- soldiering on, completing his enlistment, if you will, until he could decline to reup for the second term and step down.
In the meantime, you seem to fault him for failing to overcome bureaucratic Washington, as lead by the President, the Vice-President, and the SecDef. I find your position on Powell wholly unreasonable, almost as if you were scapegoating the man for the W. Bush Administration's shortcomings and failings.
What would you have a SecState who finds himself excluded from the President's inner circle do? Stage a coup? I would have him resign just as Powell did.
Take a look as his performance in an administration where he was not on the outside: R. Reagan's National Security Adviser. What is your take on his performance in that role at that time? Or H.W. Bush's Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff -- particularly in Panama and Iraq? What is your take on his performance in that role at that time? What about the Carter-Powell-Nunn mission B. Clinton dispatched to Haiti? What problems do you have with Powell's performance here? Clinton considered him instrumental in meeting his administration's objectives there. Where specifically do you disagree with this?
In any case, I will not get into this with you further. It is clear that you are poisoned against him for one or another reason. There is probably little I could say to change your mind. It was not actually a question, then, as I suspected, but a mere rhetorical device and a rant. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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No, I don't think Colin did anything insidious while at state. He was quite mediocre.
Seeing as all the info on Colin is just about tapped out, its time for me to depart this thread. |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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On the idea of whether or not being General in any way qualifies a person for a post like SecState, it does. I've worked public affairs for three-stars, and the amount of their jobs given over to what amount to diplomatic missions at the highest levels of government is astounding. You don't rise to the level Powell did in the military without extraordinary political skills (internal and external).
By the way, my hunch about the talk of a position for him being "mere politics," to use Gopher's apt take on my statement, is just my hunch. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest to see Powell in any number of positions. I do, though, take him at his word that he'd really rather not. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:07 am Post subject: |
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One cause for Powell's Endorsement of Obama
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| But what sent him over the edge and made him realize he had to speak out was when he opened his New Yorker three weeks ago and saw a picture of a mother pressing her head against the gravestone of her son, a 20-year-old soldier who had been killed in Iraq. On the headstone were engraved his name, Kareem Rashad Sultan Khan, his awards � the Purple Heart, the Bronze Star � and a crescent and a star to denote his Islamic faith. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| Disagree, Bucheon Bum. I believe that C. Powell probably selected that story as a dramatic device to get his point across to a mass audience. He almost certainly had his mind made up long before reading that story. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| He almost certainly had his mind made up long before reading that story. |
Why do you doubt his word? Do you have some evidence to suggest he might be lying about this? |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
| He almost certainly had his mind made up long before reading that story. |
Why do you doubt his word? Do you have some evidence to suggest he might be lying about this? |
Seriously. That's straight from the horse's mouth. While I agree that he supported Obama long before that, I wouldn't be surprised if he only recently felt compelled to publicly endorse him. While the campaign has been dirty, I'd say it has gotten especially ugly in the past month or so. |
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