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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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 Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| catman wrote: |
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This article tries to make it sound like the it was just a mistake of the intelligence agencies and totally distorts the fact that the intelligence agencies were pressured by those higher up to come up with WMD evidence and that limited evidence was then exaggerated. All this has come up before, do we really need to go over it again? |
Joo is like the retro neo-con. The article above is from April 2004. Only the most diehard hawks still believe this dribble. Or Fox News viewers. |
My source is stratfor actually.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America's_Secret_War
http://www.stratfor.com/
Sorry Catman what is your source for stuff?
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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JustJohn
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Location: Your computer screen
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| IncognitoHFX wrote: |
| JustJohn wrote: |
Obama is a socialist. The question is whether you think that's a good thing or a bad thing. |
Nothing by itself seems to be a good thing. Raw Capitalism has it's problems as does raw Socialism. It's all about healthy mediums. Eliminate the weakness in either system by preserving the best in each.
The problem in America is that so many people are brainwashed into thinking that all Socialists eat all babies all the time. It's skewed their perspective. |
Entirely possible. This election has actually made me think about socialism a lot more. I'm thinking about doing some digging especially on countries using varying degrees of socialism and comparing results. The problem is that most of these moderately socialist European countries need another 10 or 20 years before I'll really feel comfortable saying that we can tell exactly what the effect has been. |
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IncognitoHFX
Joined: 06 May 2007
Location: Yeongtong, Suwon
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| JustJohn wrote: |
| IncognitoHFX wrote: |
| JustJohn wrote: |
Obama is a socialist. The question is whether you think that's a good thing or a bad thing. |
Nothing by itself seems to be a good thing. Raw Capitalism has it's problems as does raw Socialism. It's all about healthy mediums. Eliminate the weakness in either system by preserving the best in each.
The problem in America is that so many people are brainwashed into thinking that all Socialists eat all babies all the time. It's skewed their perspective. |
Entirely possible. This election has actually made me think about socialism a lot more. I'm thinking about doing some digging especially on countries using varying degrees of socialism and comparing results. The problem is that most of these moderately socialist European countries need another 10 or 20 years before I'll really feel comfortable saying that we can tell exactly what the effect has been. |
But, is increased regulation really socialism? Increased government services with higher taxes? Caps on big business? It's not even as if Obama and his crew really are socialists. They're just for large government (government with a big G).
I think a lot of people on the right have conjured up images of Socialism as a scare tactic. Large government does not necessarily mean Socialist allusions... It's a chicken and egg thing. It has stuff in common with Socialism but it is by no means derived from. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
| Holy crap, do you really mean everything on that list Joo? Damn! |
What is wrong with it? |
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bangbayed
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:06 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| bangbayed wrote: |
Why am I not surprised Joo cites the unquestioning zombie conservative forum Free Republic?
And yes, laogaiguk, he really does mean everything on that list. That is the logical extension of his argument. If you support part of it, you gotta buy the whole package.
Actually, he forgot to leave out:
14) Postpone elections until the war on terror is over. We can't take the risk of changing captains midstream. |
The article first appeared in a newspaper.
Anyway my source is stratfor.
http://www.stratfor.com/
Take it up with them. |
So you refer to something as a source only after someone has called you on it? I didn't know plagiarism was one of your hobbies as well. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:13 am Post subject: |
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| bangbayed wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| bangbayed wrote: |
Why am I not surprised Joo cites the unquestioning zombie conservative forum Free Republic?
And yes, laogaiguk, he really does mean everything on that list. That is the logical extension of his argument. If you support part of it, you gotta buy the whole package.
Actually, he forgot to leave out:
14) Postpone elections until the war on terror is over. We can't take the risk of changing captains midstream. |
The article first appeared in a newspaper.
Anyway my source is stratfor.
http://www.stratfor.com/
Take it up with them. |
So you refer to something as a source only after someone has called you on it? I didn't know plagiarism was one of your hobbies as well. |
I have posted that article about 20 times or more , and furthermore I put the post up in quotes. And to top it off I put up a link.
Anyway you are a Chavez supporter and now you seem like desperate Chavez supporter.
Anyway your own post contradicts your self. How can you cite and plagiarize at the same time?
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
Real reason for the Iraq war
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FORGET Iraq's weapons of mass destruction (WMD). The real reason the United States invaded Iraq was Saudi Arabia, according to a US intelligence analyst.
Dr George Friedman, chairman of the United States private sector intelligence company Stratfor, said the US had settled on WMD as a simple justification for the war and one which it expected the public would readily accept.
Dr Friedman, in Australia on a business trip, said the US administration never wanted to explain the complex reasons for invading Iraq, keeping them from both the public and their closest supporters.
"That, primarily, was the fact that Saudi Arabia was facilitating the transfer of funds to al-Qaeda, was refusing to cooperate with the US and believed in its heart of hearts that the US would never take any action against them," he said.
Dr Friedman said the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the US prompted the strategy to hunt down al-Qaeda wherever it was to be found. But that proved exceedingly difficult.
"The US was desperate. There were no good policy choices," he said.
"Then the US turned to the question - we can't find al-Qaeda so how can we stop the enablers of al-Qaeda."
He said those enablers, the financiers and recruiters, existed in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.
But the Saudi government variously took the view that this wasn't true or that they lacked the ability and strength to act, he said.
Dr Friedman said in March last year, the Saudis responded to US pressure by asking the US to remove all its forces and bases from their territory. To their immense surprise, the US did just that, relocating to Qatar.
He said Saudi Arabia and al-Qaeda shared a number of beliefs including that the US could not fight and win a war in the region and was casualty averse. There was a need to change that perception.
But close by was Iraq, the most strategically located nation in the Middle East, bordering Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan, Turkey and Iran.
"If we held Iraq we felt first there would be dramatic changes of behaviour from the Saudis," he said. "We could also manipulate the Iranians into a change of policy and finally also lean on the Syrians.
"It wasn't a great policy. It happened to be the only policy available."
Dr Friedman said US President George W Bush faced the difficulty of explaining this policy, particularly to the Saudis. Moves to link Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda failed completely.
"They then fell on WMD for two reasons," he said.
"Nobody could object to WMD and it was the one thing that every intelligence agency knew was true.
"We knew we were going to find them. And we would never have to reveal the real reasons.
"The massive intelligence failure was that everybody including Saddam thought he had WMD. He behaved as if he had WMD. He was conned by his own people." |
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1110567/posts |
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bangbayed
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:33 am Post subject: |
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Actually I think you're the one getting so desperate you can't keep up with the references here. These are the 'recommendations' you made here and wrote with no citation:
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The alternative is to let Iran to keep going after the US. or give in to Iran. Is that better?
A cold war and an arms race is a successful tactic that eventually can bring about regime change in Iran.
This is what the US needs to do:
) Bring back the Clinton mideast plan. ( In fact make Bill Clinton US envoy to the middle east. That way he won't make trouble back home. )
2) Don't attack Iran- not now anyway.
3) Talk to Iran and Syria.
4) Tax imported oil , raise the gas tax
5) Invest in alternative energy , clean coal , nuclear power, better exploration methods with the same effort that the US put in to winning WW II.
6) Pressure the Europeans to , in fact apply horrible pressure to Europe to list Hezzbollah as a terror group.
7) Make the Patriot act permanent.
8 ) Introduce a national ID card like Korea has
9) Set up permanent US military bases in the Kurdish areas.
10) End the CIA ban on assassinations. From now on anyone of note who calls for holy war against the US is legitimate target for assassination. Anyone of note who funds Al Qaeda is a legitimate target for assassination.
11) announce that the US will withdraw from the NPT treaty if Iran tests a nuclear bomb.
12) Do NOT agree to any treaty that limits the deployment of space weapons.
13 ) Fully invest in the next generation of weapon systems.
If the US were to do the above what would the results be? I would bet you all that the US would be in a much better strategic situation than now.
Maybe more would need to be done later - in the end it has to be whatever it takes - but the above would be a start. |
You can find this post on page 7 of this thread. You gave no indication that it was someone else's material. However, you then stated you got that list above from http://www.stratfor.com/ after I called you on it.
The reference I made to whacko site Free Republic was about another post.
Got it staight now, son? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| bangbayed wrote: |
Actually I think you're the one getting so desperate you can't keep up with the references here. These are the 'recommendations' you made here and wrote with no citation:
| Quote: |
The alternative is to let Iran to keep going after the US. or give in to Iran. Is that better?
A cold war and an arms race is a successful tactic that eventually can bring about regime change in Iran.
This is what the US needs to do:
) Bring back the Clinton mideast plan. ( In fact make Bill Clinton US envoy to the middle east. That way he won't make trouble back home. )
2) Don't attack Iran- not now anyway.
3) Talk to Iran and Syria.
4) Tax imported oil , raise the gas tax
5) Invest in alternative energy , clean coal , nuclear power, better exploration methods with the same effort that the US put in to winning WW II.
6) Pressure the Europeans to , in fact apply horrible pressure to Europe to list Hezzbollah as a terror group.
7) Make the Patriot act permanent.
8 ) Introduce a national ID card like Korea has
9) Set up permanent US military bases in the Kurdish areas.
10) End the CIA ban on assassinations. From now on anyone of note who calls for holy war against the US is legitimate target for assassination. Anyone of note who funds Al Qaeda is a legitimate target for assassination.
11) announce that the US will withdraw from the NPT treaty if Iran tests a nuclear bomb.
12) Do NOT agree to any treaty that limits the deployment of space weapons.
13 ) Fully invest in the next generation of weapon systems.
If the US were to do the above what would the results be? I would bet you all that the US would be in a much better strategic situation than now.
Maybe more would need to be done later - in the end it has to be whatever it takes - but the above would be a start. |
You can find this post on page 7 of this thread. You gave no indication that it was someone else's material. However, you then stated you got that list above from http://www.stratfor.com/ after I called you on it.
The reference I made to whacko site Free Republic was about another post.
Got it staight now, son? |
Oh no this list was my own stuff. I am responsible for it myself.
the article about the reason for the war was from what Stratfor was saying. That site Free Republic was reporting what the head of stratfor had been saying.
Again I am responsible for that list and proud of it.
This is my list no one else made it.
| Quote: |
A cold war and an arms race is a successful tactic that eventually can bring about regime change in Iran.
This is what the US needs to do:
1) Bring back the Clinton mideast plan. ( In fact make Bill Clinton US envoy to the middle east. That way he won't make trouble back home. )
2) Don't attack Iran- not now anyway.
3) Talk to Iran and Syria.
4) Tax imported oil , raise the gas tax
5) Invest in alternative energy , clean coal , nuclear power, better exploration methods with the same effort that the US put in to winning WW II.
6) Pressure the Europeans to , in fact apply horrible pressure to Europe to list Hezzbollah as a terror group.
7) Make the Patriot act permanent.
8 ) Introduce a national ID card like Korea has
9) Set up permanent US military bases in the Kurdish areas.
10) End the CIA ban on assassinations. From now on anyone of note who calls for holy war against the US is legitimate target for assassination. Anyone of note who funds Al Qaeda is a legitimate target for assassination.
11) announce that the US will withdraw from the NPT treaty if Iran tests a nuclear bomb.
12) Do NOT agree to any treaty that limits the deployment of space weapons.
13 ) Fully invest in the next generation of weapon systems.
If the US were to do the above what would the results be? I would bet you all that the US would be in a much better strategic situation than now.
Maybe more would need to be done later - in the end it has to be whatever it takes - but the above would be a start |
Ok we are now straight. |
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The Hammer
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Ullungdo 37.5 N, 130.9 E, altitude : 223 m
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
Mr. Obama said:
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I will cut investments in unproven missile defense systems.
I will not weaponize space.
I will slow our development of future combat systems.
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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1978637/posts
Is this the right message to be sending Iran? |
If Joo were president here is the message he would send to Iran:
Iran,
I will ramp up investments in unproven missile defense systems. $600B
I will weaponize space. Anywhere from $75 dollars to $4Trill
I will speed our development of future combat systems. $250B
You got the message Iran? If you don't recognize then I'll put you to sleep under a blanket of 1,979 shiny new MOABs.
Joo Out
________________________________________________________
Obama for president!
I'm Sarah Palin, I'm going rouge, and I approved this message. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:45 am Post subject: |
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9-11 attacks caused trillions in damage to the US. And enemies around the world were encouraged and are still encouraged and even feel that sucide attacks can level the playing field. In fact I don't know how to put a price tag on the overall damage. But I will tell you than it is a lot more than the cost of all those weapons.
Understand one thing:9-11 was the consequence of letting stuff go on in the mideast the way it was.
Add those figures into your numbers.
Hammers' message to Iran.
Your war against the US is okay.
If the US doesn't like it then the US ought to give in.
It is ok if you have not only nuclear weapons and the strategic benefits of nuclear weapons. Let Iran have their game changer.
His solution for Al Qaeda and Iran, give in to them. Don't have trade and relations with nations that Iran or Al Qaeda doesn't like . Don't vote at the UN in ways that might offend Al Qaeda or Iran.Do what Iran and Al Qaeda want -give in to their demands. so they want so they won't do bad stuff to us.
It pays to go after the US.
Your message was approved of by Ayatollah Ali Khamani and Osama Bin Laden.
______________
Put cold war and an full scale arms race pressure on Iran and Iran's government will fall.The US can snuff out Iran's government just like it took care of the Soviet Union . Just like the Soviet Union went down the drain. The US can do them just like it took care of the Soviet Union.
It is a preferred method of war for the US.
Make Iran & Al Qaeda give up their war and invest in alternative energy and their and there will be peace dividend. |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:30 am Post subject: |
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Joo, you're so all about guns and bombs and just....Republican. There's a very serious global financial shyte-tsunami going on right now.
It's not the time for guns and bombs...after this election the US and major foreign gov'ts/central banks are going to have to cooperate in a historically unprecedented manner to keep the global economy from a total meltdown. And you think McCain, 10% removed from the asshole who put us here in the first place, should be handling all of this?!!!
Do you understand what a total meltdown would mean for the US?
I don't think you do.
The longest food bank lines we've ever seen in 80 years, amongst other things.
And I'm sure you'll all find a way to blame Hillary, Bill, and Obama for it.
It's called "confidence". No one has much any more for Bush and Co. The markets are very nervously waiting for Nov 4th--either to salvage to some sort of stability, or take a straight dive down off the cliff. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="canuckistan"]
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| Joo, you're so all about guns and bombs and just....Republican. There's a very serious global financial shyte-tsunami going on right now. |
Voted for Clinton 2x and Gore 1x.
Here is another truth 9-11 is one of the major causes of the economic crisis the US is facing.
but the Republican way of doing stuff took down the Soviet Union.
That wasn't a HUGE benefit for the US?
| Quote: |
It's not the time for guns and bombs...after this election the US and major foreign gov'ts/central banks are going to have to cooperate in a historically unprecedented manner to keep the global economy from a total meltdown. And you think McCain, 10% removed from the asshole who put us here in the first place, should be handling all of this?!!! |
It won't be cooperation that bails out the US. Nations around the world will do what they need to fix their own economies because of self interest.
It is not a matter of global cooperation.
Since U are such an expert on economics why don't you tell us the cause of the US economic problems and the degree of which Bush is to blame and back it up with some numbers.
The US didn't give up on WW II or the Cold war when times got tough.
A big reason times are tough is cause the US is at war. But the US not doing anything about the enemy doesn't make the war go away.
There are serious consequences about not doing stuff about the enemy. 9-11 was one such consequence. Every event is different but not doing stuff about the enemy will lead to some terrible event with long lasting consequences later on
More than anything as soon as the Soviet Union failed . The US experience a huge peace dividend and a huge geo political dividend. If the brings down its enemies the same is likely to occur.
| Quote: |
Do you understand what a total meltdown would mean for the US?
I don't think you do.
The longest food bank lines we've ever seen in 80 years, amongst other things. |
Well I don't think the US economy is going to experience that kind of meltdown.
I think for many people the situation is terrible but STATISTICALLY the US will put up better numbers than many think very soon.
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| And I'm sure you'll all find a way to blame Hillary, Bill, and Obama for it. |
I voted for Clinton 2x. The economic crisis the US is facing now is the fault of several presidents.
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It's called "confidence". No one has much any more for Bush and Co. The markets are very nervously waiting for Nov 4th--either to salvage to some sort of stability, or take a straight dive down off the cliff. |
I think the statistics for the US economy will turn about better than many say.
For many people things are terrible and my heart goes out to them but I read ZACKS , I read THE STREET , I read BARRONS and I read STRATFOR and I think that the US will recover better than people say.
I also think that the US economy IF it is not burdened by high oil prices is very dynamic and strong. High oil prices sapped US economy ability to resist to this kind of occurrence. |
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IncognitoHFX
Joined: 06 May 2007
Location: Yeongtong, Suwon
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
There are serious consequences about not doing stuff about the enemy. 9-11 was one such consequence. Every event is different but not doing stuff about the enemy will lead to some terrible event with long lasting consequences later on. |
This is what I don't understand. 9/11 only cost 2,000 people. While that sucks, was the war really worth it (more than 2,000 US soldiers killed and more than 88,000 Iraqi civilians killed) or was 9/11 just used as some kind of excuse?
9/11 was milked silly, and is still being milked. Sure, security measures should have been implemented and people should have been brought to justice, but where does Iraq fit into that? Why such a long, serious war with so many deaths?
There are domestic factors in the US that cost more lives than that every year. Smoking, drunk driving, suicide, cancer, you name it. Yet no one has "waged a war" on either of those things in a long while, at least not on this level.
Why is America even at war? Loss of pride? Ideology? Or control?
Attacking Iraq because of this, especially with it's connections to terrorism being so vague, is the same kind of MAD thinking that could've destroyed millions of lives during the Cold War. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="IncognitoHFX"]
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
There are serious consequences about not doing stuff about the enemy. 9-11 was one such consequence. Every event is different but not doing stuff about the enemy will lead to some terrible event with long lasting consequences later on. |
| Quote: |
| This is what I don't understand. 9/11 only cost 2,000 people. While that sucks, was the war really worth it (more than 2,000 US soldiers killed and more than 88,000 Iraqi civilians killed) or was 9/11 just used as some kind of excuse? |
cost more than 3000 people and trilliion of dollars of damage. Rebuilding Stockmarket , new ways the US will have to do business - forever that. It emboldened and encouraged US enemies around the world and will do so for a long time.
| Quote: |
| 9/11 was milked silly, and is still being milked. Sure, security measures should have been implemented and people should have been brought to justice, but where does Iraq fit into that? Why such a long, serious war with so many deaths? |
How many of the 9-11 hijackers were from Afghanistan. Where is Osama Bin Laden from? What is the real cause of terror?
| Quote: |
| There are domestic factors in the US that cost more lives than that every year. Smoking, drunk driving, suicide, cancer, you name it. Yet no one has "waged a war" on either of those things in a long while, at least not on this level. |
When war is waged against the US the US can't do business as usual. It is a burden that the US must deal with until the enemy is out of business.
| Quote: |
| Why is America even at war? Loss of pride? Ideology? Or control? |
cause the enemy encourages terror as a tactic of war.
| Quote: |
| Attacking Iraq because of this, especially with it's connections to terrorism being so vague, is the same kind of MAD thinking that could've destroyed millions of lives during the Cold War. |
If the US didn't fight the cold war then the US would not have survived as a nation. There is a fair chance it would have been attacked. |
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