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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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fj007
Joined: 21 Jan 2008
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 Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:53 am Post subject: independent contractor? |
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if a hogwan hires a foreign teacher, can they be classified as an "independent contractor" to avoid paying pension, taxes etc.? i have heard that you can't have an E2 visa and be a contractor? true or false? evidence of this in English?
also, is there any kind of legal service for foreigners available in Korea? Incheon specifically, but in Seoul is fine. in general, helping with disputes, contracts, pension/tax questions etc. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:23 am Post subject: Re: independent contractor? |
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| fj007 wrote: |
if a hogwan hires a foreign teacher, can they be classified as an "independent contractor" to avoid paying pension, taxes etc.? i have heard that you can't have an E2 visa and be a contractor? true or false? evidence of this in English?
also, is there any kind of legal service for foreigners available in Korea? Incheon specifically, but in Seoul is fine. in general, helping with disputes, contracts, pension/tax questions etc. |
LEGALLY they cannot class you as an independent contractor (this has been done to death)
BUT
Unless you have the time and where-with-all to fight it out you would just be better off looking elsewhere (unless you like to get fooked).
Yes, there are services, look in the FAQs and stickys.
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buymybook
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Location: Telluride
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:16 am Post subject: Re: independent contractor? |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| fj007 wrote: |
if a hogwan hires a foreign teacher, can they be classified as an "independent contractor" to avoid paying pension, taxes etc.? i have heard that you can't have an E2 visa and be a contractor? true or false? evidence of this in English?
also, is there any kind of legal service for foreigners available in Korea? Incheon specifically, but in Seoul is fine. in general, helping with disputes, contracts, pension/tax questions etc. |
LEGALLY they cannot class you as an independent contractor (this has been done to death)
BUT
Unless you have the time and where-with-all to fight it out you would just be better off looking elsewhere (unless you like to get fooked).
Yes, there are services, look in the FAQs and stickys.
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You are a JOKE to continue saying this, it happens all the time. Until you provide people a direct path to stop this then you should stop saying this. The labor law ignores the law and Judges do too. SHUT UP or SHIP OUT!
Gerald or Mr. Bong-Soo are not STRONG enough/willing to STOP illegal activity in S. Korea.
Services? The most recent that I'm aware of is whatever his name is(GERALD) that is associated with that lawyer guy(Mr. Bong-Soo Jung) who is at the Global Center once a week on Tuesdays. That guy specifically told me that public schools can clasify E-2 visa holders as Independent Contractors when the position is as a 2nd employer(on the back of the ARC card).
Let me add that B. Carr is also a PUTZ for suggesting Teachers go to Gerald and Bong-Soo Jung for help when they are not willing to fight the fight.
Last edited by buymybook on Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:42 am; edited 2 times in total |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:21 am Post subject: Re: independent contractor? |
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| buymybook wrote: |
| You are a JOKE to continue saying this, it happens all the time. Until you provide people a direct path to stop this then you should stop saying this. The labor law ignores the law and Judges do too. SHUT UP or SHIP OUT! |
So you got burned and you think others should follow suit and accept jobs like this and get burned just because you did?
It is illegal and people should be informed of that fact and NOT accept jobs like this in the first place. It is a very difficult, uphill battle to do anything after the fact. Tis better to not get in that position in the first place.
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buymybook
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Location: Telluride
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:50 am Post subject: Re: independent contractor? |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| buymybook wrote: |
| You are a JOKE to continue saying this, it happens all the time. Until you provide people a direct path to stop this then you should stop saying this. The labor law ignores the law and Judges do too. SHUT UP or SHIP OUT! |
So you got burned and you think others should follow suit and accept jobs like this and get burned just because you did?
It is illegal and people should be informed of that fact and NOT accept jobs like this in the first place. It is a very difficult, uphill battle to do anything after the fact. Tis better to not get in that position in the first place.
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Illegal? Prove it! Show US the path WISE ONE. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:35 am Post subject: Re: independent contractor? |
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| buymybook wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
| buymybook wrote: |
| You are a JOKE to continue saying this, it happens all the time. Until you provide people a direct path to stop this then you should stop saying this. The labor law ignores the law and Judges do too. SHUT UP or SHIP OUT! |
So you got burned and you think others should follow suit and accept jobs like this and get burned just because you did?
It is illegal and people should be informed of that fact and NOT accept jobs like this in the first place. It is a very difficult, uphill battle to do anything after the fact. Tis better to not get in that position in the first place.
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Illegal? Prove it! Show US the path WISE ONE. |
By definition: a subcontractor does not receive wages. They are contracted to complete a job and the time and manner of work is defined by the contractor. They get paid by the job. You call the plumber. He arrives when he gets there. He fixes your toilet and you pay him. He is NOT your employee and you are NOT his employer.
An EMPLOYEE is one whose time and manner of work are determined by the EMPLOYER and is paid a wage. They work when the employer tells them to start and finish when the employer tells them to finish. They get a fixed salary and they do what the employer tells them to do in the manner the employer wants them to do it.
Specific precedence was set by the supreme court of Korea ruling against the KNR and in favor of its "subcontracted female workers" who were in fact ruled to be employees for this very reason.
Oh, and the current "Labor Standards Act", article 2 and the "Act on the Protection, etc. of Fixed-term and Part-time Employees" and the "findings of the Korean Supreme Court, 2005."
You got burned.
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niandralades
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Location: incheon
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| Oh ttompatz, what are we going to do without you to put these guys in their place. |
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Tommy
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:10 am Post subject: |
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Well for starters, there's this:
http://english.molab.go.kr/english/Foreign/Foreign-know_list.jsp
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2. Insurance and Trust
To protect rights and to induce voluntary departure of foreign workers who enter Korea under the EPS, employers shall provide departure guarantee insurance and delayed payment insurance to workers and workers shall insure themselves for return cost insurance and accident insurance. As soon as entering Korea, foreign workers are insured of Employment Insurance, Health Insurance by the business, and must become insured to Return Cost Insurance and Trust, Accident Insurance etc..(insure during preemployment training period) |
Departure Guarantee Insurance and Trust (Severance):
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| Departure guarantee insurance is for employers to guarantee the severance money under the Labor Standards Act. This is for workers who worked at least for one year at business with 5 or more workers. |
National Health Insurance:
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| Applied for the foreign worker employers and foreign workers according to the law of National Health Insurance. |
National Pension:
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According to the principle of reciprocity, national pension is applied to foreign workers from countries that apply it to foreign workers
- Therefore, foreign workers of sending countries under the EPS must subscribe to the national pension and the pension is not applied to workers from Vietnam. |
From the National Health Insurance website:
http://www.nhic.or.kr/eng/nhic_sub4/nhic_sub4_1/faq.html
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Q: Who are subject to the employee insured under the NHI program?
A: Employers and employees at workplaces in Korea are covered compulsorily as the employee insured. |
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Q: What is required to be covered by the employed insured?
A: Foreign workers can apply for NHI enrollment to their employers who are by law responsible for submitting an application form to the National Health Insurance Corporation. |
To play devils advocate you might say, "This only applies to employees.. if someone signs as an Independent Contractor then they are not an employee"
But, the thought of an English teacher (or any other foreign worker) entering this country without the sponsorship of an employer is pretty absurd. E2's need an EMPLOYER to sponsor their visa.. plain and simple.
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rich45
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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I spent hours and hours reading about this topic a few weeks ago. Learnt a lot that is helping when it comes to contracts with potential employers...
BUT
...I am struggling to find many positions that fit all the criteria for an EMPLOYEE. I've been offered countless jobs only to discover that Pension is not included in the contract, or for it to say something like "health insurance is not mandatory," etc. Classic signs that I'll be listed as an Independent Contractor...
Regarding the 3.3% tax figure, well I've just accepted that that's how much I'll pay, as I'm yet to see one contract where this number is lower.
Finding a good contract is like finding a needle in a haystack!  |
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hari seldon
Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| rich45 wrote: |
I spent hours and hours reading about this topic a few weeks ago. Learnt a lot that is helping when it comes to contracts with potential employers...
BUT
...I am struggling to find many positions that fit all the criteria for an EMPLOYEE. I've been offered countless jobs only to discover that Pension is not included in the contract, or for it to say something like "health insurance is not mandatory," etc. Classic signs that I'll be listed as an Independent Contractor...
Regarding the 3.3% tax figure, well I've just accepted that that's how much I'll pay, as I'm yet to see one contract where this number is lower.
Finding a good contract is like finding a needle in a haystack! |
Many (if not most) schools will hand you a canned contract that they got from their hagwon owners association or franchise group. Inevitably these contracts include inflated tax deductions and omit pension deductions.
Why anyone would accept this nonsense escapes me. The demand for NETs exceeds the supply by a wide margin. Insist on changes before you sign. |
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