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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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 Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: Why is it OK... |
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| ...to use accusations of socialism but not fascism? |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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It's perfectly OK 
I've been throwing it around liberally when commenting on Palin's firing the town librarian for rebuffing her attempts (3 times) to ban certain books.
If it looks like a fascist, and it smells like a fascist,........ |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Are you sure you want to use 'liberally' in that sentence? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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Well, it may be because socialism is not as bad as fascism.
Sweden circa 2008 v Germany/Italy 1938? Fascism is much worse than socialism. Now if it were communism being mentioned (as it sometimes is), you might have a point . . . |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
Well, it may be because socialism is not as bad as fascism.
Sweden circa 2008 v Germany/Italy 1938? Fascism is much worse than socialism. Now if it were communism being mentioned (as it sometimes is), you might have a point . . . |
From what I gather from ontheway's posts, that is not a distinction he considers at all important. (There are a number of others who don't seem to make any distinction among any of the isms.) Considering that liberal is a dirty word to the ones who are using 'socialism' as a pejoratve lately, I think the word has become a kind of shorthand for everything they dislike.
I've complained before that this Godwin's (?) Law thing is a self-serving right wing plot to protect themselves from criticism along the lines of 'it's OK for us to use guilt by association tactics but not for the other side'. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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Communism and Fascism made up the so-called totalitarian states (Soviet Russia, Nazi Germany, North Korea, Mao's China, Castro's Cuba, the Khmer Rougue).
Socialism is generally regarded along the lines of Western European social democracy -- and not Latin American Socialism, which has gone far to the left of Communism since F. Castro.
Apples and oranges, then, Ya-ta Boy, even if many know no difference between them, and tend to employ "Communism" and "Socialism" interchangeably with "Marxism." And "Fascism" remains a pretty extreme, and extremely inappropriate, thing to say about someone in American politics. Unfortunately, this seems to come as news to you. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
Well, it may be because socialism is not as bad as fascism.
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: Why is it OK... |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| ...to use accusations of socialism but not fascism? |
Because socialism is good, and fascism is bad? 
Edit: That bloody Kuros beat me to it!  |
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Cornfed
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
Well, it may be because socialism is not as bad as fascism.
Sweden circa 2008 v Germany/Italy 1938? |
From what I read, Germany and Italy in 1938 were seen as good places to live by most of their inhabitants, especially compared to the privations of the Great Depression going on everywhere else. This seems to have been due to the fact that they set up barter systems with other countries rather than going through the international financial system and took over the mechanism for creating money, thereby enabling then to spend directly into their economies. Which is most likely why they had to be destroyed. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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Fascism is associated with racial superiorty and totalitarianism.
While someone can be a democratic socialist. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Apples and oranges, then, Ya-ta Boy, even if many know no difference between them, and tend to employ "Communism" and "Socialism" interchangeably with "Marxism." |
I'm pretty sure he does know the difference, just like I would assume most here would. And thanks for the rundown of the obvious in the rest of your post. I'm sure it wasn't condescending and you're only trying to help.
I would surmise that if anyone needs a poly sci 101 lecture from you they'll go ahead and ask for it.
BTW, is this room getting stuffy? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Cornfed wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
Well, it may be because socialism is not as bad as fascism.
Sweden circa 2008 v Germany/Italy 1938? |
From what I read, Germany and Italy in 1938 were seen as good places to live by most of their inhabitants, especially compared to the privations of the Great Depression going on everywhere else. This seems to have been due to the fact that they set up barter systems with other countries rather than going through the international financial system and took over the mechanism for creating money, thereby enabling then to spend directly into their economies. Which is most likely why they had to be destroyed. |
Or, its likely that they had to be destroyed because they erected their justification for domestic political power on national-ethnic supremacy which impelled them to subjugate the entire world. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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Caniff: it was intentionally condescending. Thank you for noticing. And the original question, too, was a rhetorical one intended to make an argument, and not an honest one, asking for views. "Fascism" has appeared here, and has been badly, badly misused and abused enough times that I am confident in delivering a very much needed 101-style lecture on this vocab.
Not stuffy at all, now that you ask. Typical Dave's ambience.
Last edited by Gopher on Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:55 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: Why is it OK... |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Why is it OK......to use accusations of socialism but not fascism? |
That's news to me. As far as I'm aware, to everyone save for the least sophisticated of Americans, socialist is a purely descriptive concept, whereas, in clear contrast, fascist can far more evidently be used as an insult everywhere on Earth. |
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