Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Gopher]

Coming this Wednesday. Controversial and problematic, to say the least.

[Jandar]

The Army has been working on these non-lethal weapons for some time.

They got some pretty cool experimental sound and energy machines that look promising for crowd control.

Hopefully that's some of the stuff they will be training for.

I think there may be some thinking in the pentagon that we have neglected certain terrain types while concentrating on desert and mountain training over the past few years.

There may also be a belief that we are prepared for and have experience in southern weather type disaster with little or no experience with western disaster, earthquakes and volcanoes.

http://www.stewart.army.mil/3DIDWeb/Homepage/3idhome.asp

http://www.stewart.army.mil/3didweb/History/Historyhome.asp

http://www.stewart.army.mil/3didweb/1st%20BCT/1stBrigadehom.asp

[bacasper]

Just in time as the financial crisis hits, with W's new powers there for the taking for any declared "emergency."

What happened to the martial law thread?

[bacasper]

Two More U.S. Military Units Assigned For Homeland Security

Northcom to train 4,700 service members for �specialized domestic operations�

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
Tuesday, November 4, 2008

Northcom has announced that two more U.S. military units will be assigned for domestic homeland security missions, bringing the total number of combat ready service members operating inside the U.S. to around 4,700, as fears grow about the increasing militarization of law enforcement.

The announcement follows the controversy surrounding a September 8 Army Times report (revised on September 30), which revealed that the 3rd Infantry Division�s 1st Brigade Combat Team, fresh from combat duties in Iraq, would be operating inside America for tasks including �civil unrest and crowd control,� a detail that was later denied by Northcom despite the concession that forces would be armed with both non-lethal and lethal weapons as well as having access to tanks.

�In the next three years the military plans to activate and train an estimated 4,700 service members for specialized domestic operations, according to Air Force Gen. Gene Renuart, commander of U.S. Northern Command, which was created in 2002 for homeland defense missions,� reports the Colorado Independent.

�It�s to help us manage the consequences of a large-scale event,� said Renuart. �We have one [unit] now trained and equipped and assigned to the Northern Command. We�ll grow a second one this calendar year of 2009 and a third one in the calendar year 2010 so we can provide the nation three sets of capabilities that could respond to an event of the size of 9/11 or larger.�

But as Mike German, national security counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union�s legislative office in Washington., D.C., points out, �This isn�t a military police brigade or a civil affairs brigade. This is actually a combat brigade being assigned a domestic mission.�

�It�s fine for the general to say that,� said counter-terrorist operations specialist German. �But we want to know what the policies actually are, what the roles are and what the regulations are to see whether this is actually complying with the law.�

The ACLU has filed a Freedom Of Information Request demanding more information on the purpose and scope of military assets under Northcom control being deployed domestically.

Despite Northcom�s insistence that the deployments are purely related to natural disaster and mass casualty response, the original Army Times report quoted 1st BCT commander Col. Roger Cloutier as saying that the unit would be trained in the use of �nonlethal weapons designed to subdue unruly or dangerous individuals� for the purposes of �crowd and traffic control�.

The use of U.S. troops in law enforcement duties is a complete violation of the Posse Comitatus Act and the Insurrection Act, which substantially limit the powers of the federal government to use the military for law enforcement unless under precise and extreme circumstances.

Section 1385 of the Posse Comitatus Act states, �Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.�

Under the John Warner Defense Authorization Act, signed by President Bush on October 17, 2006, the law was changed to state, �The President may employ the armed forces to restore public order in any State of the United States the President determines hinders the execution of laws or deprives people of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law or opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.�

However, these changes were repealed in their entirety by HR 4986: National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008, reverting back to the original state of the Insurrection Act of 1807. Despite this repeal, President Bush attached a signing statement saying that he did not feel bound by the repeal.

Fears of active duty military assets being called upon to administer martial law in the aftermath of an economic collapse or a large scale terrorist attack were heightened after we revealed the existence of a FEMA-run program which is training Pastors and other religious representatives to become secret police enforcers who teach their congregations to �obey the government� in preparation for a declaration of martial law, property and firearm seizures, and forced relocation.

Debunkers and �urban myth� websites - such as The Museum of Hoaxes - dismissed the story as a hoax, yet it was later confirmed in triplicate by mainstream news reports.

[laogaiguk]

The only problem I see is taking an active force, giving them non-lethal weaponry and calling them Smurfs Do you think they will take smurf code names???

They probably need the training in different terrain anyway.

[bacasper]

[Jandar]

We've always had active combat troops stationed domestically?

[Gopher]

[bacasper]

[Jandar]

Examples of federal Force use where justifiaction are given.

Little Rock Arkansas 1957.

Chicago Illinois 1895.

Los Angeles California 1992.

Also exempt from Posse Comitatus Nuclear or Radiological events, I
think that includes Chemical and Biological as well, and chemical has
been interpreted to include some drugs (as in Meth labs).

For the most part Posse Comitatus only restricts the Armed Services from
search, seizure and arrest powers.

The Coast Guard is exempt from Posse Comitatus.

The role of the US Army at Waco.

Seems the article in the OP desribes preparation for those events outside
of the intent Posse Comitatus act.

Posse Comitatus was also seen as a hinderance to providing federal aid in
the aftermath of Katrina.

[Gopher]

No. A twelve-month or more deployment of active-duty troops on American soil is a novel event, worthy of our attention, to say the least. Not the same at all as, for example, the Coast Guard or D. Eisenhower's use of force in Little Rock. Do not be taken in so easily by the Army Times's spin on its mission, either.

[Jandar]

Are they being stationed in Civilian Areas?

I thought they were stationed at Fort Stewart?

[Gopher]

The entire structure and its mission is new in American history, Jandar. Yes, they are stationed on military bases. But they are tasked to operate all over the continental United States. And Washington keeps subtly adding to their numbers and mission, piece by piece, and the thing continues growing and evolving. It is bigger than merely this unit or its command authority. There is an overarching thing unfolding here. Think of an all-powerful, militarized, combat-air-patrol-capable FEMA.

Sea Smurf reports to this command authority...

[Jandar]

I don't think we are in complete disagreement. I think people fear the potential for abuse rather than the necessity for preparation.

Yes, it is none that the Anti-Federalist, Confederates and States Rightist have always opposed a standing army.

Whether these moves by DHS are violations or can become violations of Posse Comitatus remains to be seen.

Truth be told combat and crowd control have been the centerpiece of National Guard training, crowd control has been a separate part of basic training for NG enlistees for as long as I can remember.

The Posse Comitas act, the Resurrection Act and other similar acts including the third Amendment were all made in appeasement to Confederate sentiment. These acts are still in the control of congress and can be superseded by newer legislation.

Unfortunately we were not around to prevent the establishment of the standing Army or the Air Force. The constitution as we know did define a Navy and it's associated Land Forces for eternal maintenance. The Army was intended to have it's limitations. The Militia's (National Guard) are established to execute federal laws, suppress insurrection and repel invasion.

Since the establishment of the constitution, over time we have seen that the Militias have become the standing Army, whether that is constitutionally acceptable or not the reality is that we have allowed through precedent, the establishment of a standing Army in Perpetuity and we have allowed through those same precedences the subjugation of all the Militias to this standing Army.

In view of this perceived threat from these perceived super federal powers inherent in the DHS and subsequent legislation and to this C-Smurf activity, one must weigh out the intent of the founders, subsequent legislation, the intent of this program, and the likely hood of abuse.

(My own true feeling on this subject can be seen in another article I wrote in this forum regarding which Armed forces I feel were intended by the founders and the subsequent uses of them).

[Gopher]