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bangbayed
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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Since Warren Buffet is one of Obama's advisors, does that make Buffet socialist also?
OP?....pkang...? Oh right, he's run away.... |
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sojourner1
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Location: Where meggi swim and 2 wheeled tractors go sput put chug alugg pug pug
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I get it, the OP is referring to the USA becoming a socialist and even communist style country system since capitalism is not working. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| This thread is idiotic. |
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RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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Are we Soviet? Let's run down the checklist:
- Redistribution of wealth? Check.
- Invading Afghanistan and getting thumped? Check.
- Secret police wiretaps? Check.
- Drinking Stoli and eating spreadleg pie to forget about the above problems? Check. |
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Jandar
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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I don't see socialism as necessarily anti-capitalism.
Even Adam Smith saw a part for Govenment intervetnion in the economy.
Institutional systems (Health, Education, Military) that were not profitable in the private sector however necessary for the liberty of the society, the government should be active in those sectors of the economy.
Free enterprise thrives under cpompetition, as sectors of the economy gravitate towards monopoly and away from healthy compettiton, government intervention is the necessary recourse, regulation and nationalization are the means to these ends.
Unfortunately we cannot rely upon the enterprises to keep competition open and alive. We find large comapnies today don't develop products as the yused to, they wait for some start up company to develop a viable product and then they buy the company along with product.
So I guess we ask ourselves if we are out of the mercantile-industrial society?
Have we surpassed the expectations of capitalism?
Has the time come for corporatism or communism, the Red Star Corporation in the East and Blue Cross Corporation in the West with Fledgling Golden Crescent hoarding the oil.
What we really need is to understand the place for socialization and regulation within our society, beware the evils of government and the danger it presents to individual liberty, a better understanding of free enterprise and it's role in societies pursuit of happiness and the methods we use to balance these and make necessary changes as society changes and the world around us changes and as resources become more and more scarce.
In the end, if you you will humor me and my meandering, it will be the trappings of mediocrity that end our civilization, strive always for excellence within the bounds of nature, bring your best to table at all times, for even in the face of the virtueless, greatness will always shine and bring with it the rewards of our natural world. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| manlyboy wrote: |
| You think you're inheriting a bad economy now? Wait and see what the next president inherits after a term of policies devoted to redistributing wealth instead of creating it. |
Interesting quote.
C'mon, there was NO job creation for 8 years...unless you mean creating contractor jobs for truck drivers to get kidnapped in Iraq. Sending Americans economically overseas to do contract work is NOT job creation.
There was NOTHING happening domestically for 8 YEARS.
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Redistribution of wealth and 'communism'...please find me ONE PLAN of Obama's that he talks about this. JUST ONE. There are NONE.
The incentives are going to be in alternative energies...job creation will be in that field. Now that we will soon have administration that understands government's role is to direct the people and corporations through its tax incentives and so on, we can start to do some cool stuff.
The last 8 years there has been NO DIRECTION in anything because Republicans believe in do whatever you want - send jobs overseas, rip off people, overcharge through the insurance industry scam, overinflate the housing market as wealth, etc. and a very large range of "NO PLANS". |
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Milwaukiedave
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Goseong
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| Conservatives to America: "Obama will eat your children." |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:37 am Post subject: |
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There will be no new ideas and very little change at the political level during the next 4 years of President Obama.
We still have an economic crisis to get through.
There was a major effort to pump up the economy and the stock market just prior to the election to help McCain and the Republicans. Now that the election is over, the effects of this additional bubble, plus the already existing crisis, should return the markets and the economy to their downward paths. |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:04 am Post subject: |
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I guess if you're so against 'socialism' then you must also be against bailing out private companies with public money, right? That would be very 'socialist' for the government to redistribute wealth in that way.
Oh, no wait a minute, that's right, the executives who run those companies are rich people. Therefore it's OK to give them taxpayer money. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| asylum seeker wrote: |
| I guess if you're so against 'socialism' then you must also be against bailing out private companies with public money, right? . |
Absolutely. Let them fail.
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| That would be very 'socialist' for the government to redistribute wealth in that way. |
Correct!
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| Oh, no wait a minute, that's right, the executives who run those companies are rich people. Therefore it's OK to give them taxpayer money. |
No. It is wrong to steal money from one person and give it to another, whether it is an individual, group or the government that does the stealing. Voting does not make theft anything other than theft. It just keeps the perps out of prison where they belong. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
OP, Socialism is when you nationalize industry or banks.
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Hmm.. I believe I read something about that little thing about nationalization recently. So PKang, it seems as though we've already had a socialist pres for some time  .
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It's outrageous. The people spouting the 'Barack is a socialist' line are merely partisans, i.e., people who just follow and spout the party line. The honest conservatives have already jumped ship and abandoned the GOP, and are being castigated by the partisans for doing so.
Gravel, Kuncinich, and Edwards were the only socialists in the Democratic primary, and they were soundly defeated. |
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moosehead
Joined: 05 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| JMO wrote: |
RUN!!
They're coming for your guns! Grab your cousin/wife, your 18 children, stick the trailer on your truck and head north while there's still time. |
so that's why all these Canadians are in K?? they are running away from home??
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moosehead
Joined: 05 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
There will be no new ideas and very little change at the political level during the next 4 years of President Obama.
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another know-nothing post on the internet -
oh yeah baby - use that brain for something other than popping bottle tops  |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| uberscheisse wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| crazy_arcade wrote: |
Canada is conservative, damn conservative.
Did you graduate high school? Just a question.... |
Canada JUST became conservative. Liberals ran Canada ever since Canadians were trapping beaver. |
canada has a really strong conservative streak, especially as far as christianity and thinking of things "over'ome" as most british transplants are wont to do - toronto has more right-wing wall street fartsucker types per capita than you'd guess.
and that conservatism is often coupled with a strong left-wing streak, especially on the prairies - the sort of "holy shit, it's cold, my nearest neighbors are 23 miles away and we're all farmers - we had better stick together" kind of socialism.
coupled with really weird ideas about just how much the bible should play a part in your life, it makes for strong ideological conservatism. but it also breeds some collectivist ideas.
and there's nothing wrong with that unless you're a selfish turd. |
Another manifestation of conservative social thought running through Canada...
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Little Sisters Book and Art Emporium v. Canada (Minister of Justice) [2000] 2 S.C.R. 1120, 2000 SCC 69 is a leading Supreme Court of Canada decision on freedom of expression and equality rights under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It was held that the Customs Act, which gave broad powers to customs inspectors to exclude "obscene" materials, violated the right to freedom of expression under section 2 but was justifiable under section 1.
Little Sister's Book and Art Emporium is a bookstore in Vancouver, BC that sells gay and lesbian-related literature. It imports most of its material from the United States, which has often caused trouble at the border when the material would be refused entry as it was classified as obscene. The bookstore challenged the section of the Customs Act which prohibited the importation obscene material as well as a section of the Act that put the onus on the importer to disprove obscenity.
At trial, the court found that the customs has targeted shipments to the bookstore and attempted to prevent them from getting in. Consequently, the government was found to have violated section 2 of the Charter. However, the violation was justified under section 1.
In a 6 to 3 decision, the Supreme Court upheld the ruling of the trial judge and found that though there was violation of section 2, it was justified under section 1.
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So yes, Canada is all about letting nice, mainstream gays get hitched up in traditional nuptials at the local Unitarian church. But if a gay and lesbian bookstore tries to import a selection of anal fisting manuals from the US, there could be hell to pay with the guardians of social propriety.
Not that it's otherwise difficult to get hardcore porn, gay or straight, in Canada. The Man just seems to have it in for outlets that openly advertise themselves as gay and lesbian.
http://tinyurl.com/5nxvjl |
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OneWayTraffic
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| asylum seeker wrote: |
| I guess if you're so against 'socialism' then you must also be against bailing out private companies with public money, right? . |
Absolutely. Let them fail.
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That'll be a problem, then, when they bring down the whole economy with them.
Failure of companies like AIG, Fannie and Freddie would have been a disaster. |
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