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rusty1983
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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 Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| JMO wrote: |
| Ireland has had two female presidents which makes us way ahead on gender equality. We've also had an American as taioseach (prime minister), so suck on that. We obviously are the most tolerant nation in the world. |
Were any of the 3 black though? Didnt think so. A black PM is cooler than a female PM. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| He got the immigrant and minority vote just by virtue of where his family came from |
Do you have any stats on this? All I could find was...
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According to statistics quoted on French television on the evening of the first round of the presidential election at the end of April, only around one percent of French Muslims voted for the conservative Sarkozy. Around 62 percent voted for his challenger, the Socialist S�gol�ne Royal.
The French "Beurs" against Sarkozy
But such figures need to be viewed with caution. They are based on voluntary information and self-definition, since surveys which ask about religious or ethnic origin are officially prohibited in France. And so far there are no details about the voting patterns of Muslim immigrants in the second round of the presidential election and in the parliamentary elections.
Supporters Nicolas Sarkozy at the Gaveau concert hall in Paris, May 6, 2007, shortly after the closure of the polling stations for the second round of the presidential election
But there are signs of a tendency which make it clear that many immigrants families were highly sceptical about the election of Nicolas Sarkozy to the presidency.
The opinion research company IFOP published a survey in February according to which only 23.4 percent of the Muslim population in France identified with the ruling UMP. According to the survey, 55 percent preferred the largest opposition party, the Socialists.
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Even allowing that the 1% number from the first round was a low estimate, and that non-Muslim immigrants might have been more pro-Sarkozy than the Muslims were, I'm still a bit skeptical of the claim that Sarkozy "got the immigrant and minority vote".
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| I never thought I'd see the French elect a president who wasn't French in my lifetime, and believe me, they don't think of him as truly French. |
Maybe not. But, perceptions aside, I would not say that Hungarian immigrants to France have had anything like the unexalted socioeconomic status "enjoyed" by blacks in the USA. It seems to me that the comparable group in France would be arabs and Africans from the former colonies, who have suffered(roughly) the same sort of racism, exploitation, and alienation as American blacks have. A true "French Obama", it seems to me, would be drawn from those communities. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| Anyways, I don't see Europe electing a visible minority as a leader for a few generations. Maybe a jew, but not a visible minority. |
We've already had a Jewish Prime minister: Benjamin Disraeli was Prime Minister twice in the second half of the 19th Century. Then we had Thatcher in 1979. And Europe has thrown up quite a few female leaders and heads of state. America is still behind on that count.
America has had a significant black population for hundreds of years. Europe has only begun to grow a home grown black population. Eventually that'll lead to a black (part black) leader somewhere down the line. |
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sharkey
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: Where's Europe's Obama? |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
"This is the fall of the Berlin Wall times 10," Rama Yade, junior minister for human rights and France's only black government member, said in a radio interview. "America is a New World again. On this morning, we all want to be American so we can take a bite of this dream unfolding before our eyes."
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,588923,00.html
An interesting short article on the state of ethnic minorities in Europe and their place in politics. |
haha i was in germany this summer in a small city called Darmstadt and there was quite a healthy population of Turks. Not once, in all the time ( 3 weeks) in Germany did I hear one person say anything remotely nice about the Turks. I just was like wow, because where I am we dont give a shit where youre from, what youre doing here or your history, but, not in Germany! Other then that Germany was a great timeee |
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sharkey
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| BS.Dos. wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| The whole world thinks Brits and French are arrogant and pompous. |
Care to talk about what the 'whole world' thinks of America? |
Everyone hates America, but, I must say American people are nice. Theyre just amazingly ignorant of others culture |
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BS.Dos.
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| ^I couldn't agree with you more, especially with regards to the latter part of your first sentence. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| We've already had a Jewish Prime minister: Benjamin Disraeli was Prime Minister twice in the second half of the 19th Century. |
Well, Disraeli had been baptized as an Anglican long before going into politics. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| BS.Dos. wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| The whole world thinks Brits and French are arrogant and pompous. |
Care to talk about what the 'whole world' thinks of America? |
Not really. Its discussed on this site about every third thread.
Notice I segregated Brits and French from the rest of Europe. I couldn't find the study I wanted, but here's one from VisitBritain.
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| Our sense of humour is very different. It's dry and quirky. That is one of the things that makes us such a unique destination � we have to get that message across. |
[The following is generalization, it may not apply to even a substantial minority of the British population]
I've discovered that in dealing with Brits, you get far more respect for meeting this attitude head-on rather than being polite and just taking it. The Brits want to provoke, want to fight. So as long as you don't flip out and cry about it when they start to get vicious, things will be okay. I don't ordinarily provoke Brits, though, unless I want them to feel comfortable.
This isn't all bad. I'm not afraid if I provoke something with a Brit that he'll get physical. I would be afraid of that with some Americans. Which is to say, its more sport to Brits. But many non-Brits don't understand this attitude.
| sharkey wrote: |
| [Americans] are just amazingly ignorant of others' culture |
This is generally true. Americans know *just next to nothing* outside their borders, except if they have been abroad or its their job to know something outside their borders. Obama's not going to change that, although one might read it as a recognition that Americans want someone who knows something outside our borders. Although Obama is hardly exceptional in his understanding of the outside world, but certainly better than any of the Republican candidates. |
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BS.Dos.
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| BS.Dos. wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| The whole world thinks Brits and French are arrogant and pompous. |
Care to talk about what the 'whole world' thinks of America? |
Not really. Its discussed on this site about every third thread.
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It's okay, it was a rhetorical question.
Just to quote one thing from your link:
In the eyes of the world, the British people � and in particular the English � are arrogant, unfriendly and have almost no sense of humour.
That's actually a pretty good description of the typical Daily Telegraph reader. |
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BS.Dos.
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:33 am Post subject: |
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Overall, the Canadians, the Australians and the Spanish were perceived to be the friendliest people.
Any comment? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| BS.Dos. wrote: |
Overall, the Canadians, the Australians and the Spanish were perceived to be the friendliest people.
Any comment? |
Yes, the Spanish and the Australians ARE friendly.  |
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rusty1983
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| BS.Dos. wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| The whole world thinks Brits and French are arrogant and pompous. |
Care to talk about what the 'whole world' thinks of America? |
Not really. Its discussed on this site about every third thread.
Notice I segregated Brits and French from the rest of Europe. I couldn't find the study I wanted, but here's one from VisitBritain.
| Quote: |
| Our sense of humour is very different. It's dry and quirky. That is one of the things that makes us such a unique destination � we have to get that message across. |
[The following is generalization, it may not apply to even a substantial minority of the British population]
I've discovered that in dealing with Brits, you get far more respect for meeting this attitude head-on rather than being polite and just taking it. The Brits want to provoke, want to fight. So as long as you don't flip out and cry about it when they start to get vicious, things will be okay. I don't ordinarily provoke Brits, though, unless I want them to feel comfortable.
This isn't all bad. I'm not afraid if I provoke something with a Brit that he'll get physical. I would be afraid of that with some Americans. Which is to say, its more sport to Brits. But many non-Brits don't understand this attitude.
| sharkey wrote: |
| [Americans] are just amazingly ignorant of others' culture |
This is generally true. Americans know *just next to nothing* outside their borders, except if they have been abroad or its their job to know something outside their borders. Obama's not going to change that, although one might read it as a recognition that Americans want someone who knows something outside our borders. Although Obama is hardly exceptional in his understanding of the outside world, but certainly better than any of the Republican candidates. |
What you need to understand about British culture is that everyone is slagging evryone else off. You get more abuse from your friends and sometimes family than anyone else. It's called 'taking the piss.' We say horrible things to each other all the time and think nothing of it.
With British people a rule to remember is - sometimes the more they slag you off the more they like you.
That Americans were the opposite was refreshing at first, a welcome breath of fresh air in fact, but it gets boring. You need a bit of conflict and jokes.
We love winding people up and that Americans make it so easy for others to wind them up makes them an easy target. Most Brits do not hate Americans whatsoever.
However living in England people are a bit off at times. I think it's the weather. And also a kind of 'fear', possibly the fear of having the piss taken out of you. When you say people are arrogant it is a good point. Most people visiting England head for London and some of the people in London are absolute wankers. Comfortably ruder are more arrogant than most Americans.
However, in most other parts of the country you'll find friendly, unassuming, down-to-earth people, although there is a kind of inwardness and self-loathing we need to get rid of. Most people just wanna have a good time and you'd get nowhere near the kind of depressing and pointless political discussions such as this. |
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