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bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:15 am Post subject: Mossad Chief "Killer of the Year" |
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Israel's Man of the Year Eluded Justice
by Mahmoud El-Yousseph
After reading about Israel's most recent Man of the Year Award recipient, I did not know whether to laugh or cry. It looks like the judging panel at the Israeli television station Channel 2 is in need of a public relations consultant. The recipient of this year's award was Meir Dagan, the Chief of Mossad, the Israeli foreign intelligence agency. Meir Dagan is an unindicted war criminal with Arab blood on his hands.
Major Israeli daily newspapers Ha'aretz and Yedioth Aharonot immediately denounced the choice and described it as an embarrassment to Israelis. Ha'aretz ran an editorial on Mr. Dagan that was titled "Killer of the Year." Yedioth Aharonot described Dagan as an opportunist who does not know the meaning of humanity or sympathy.
It is amazing that a media outlet would select such a man for this prestigious title that does not make Israelis feel proud at home and respected abroad. There are several noted and noble Israeli men that come to mind who would be worthy of this distinction. Here is my short list:
Gideon Levy, an honest and sincere Israeli journalist for the Ha'aretz, whom the French newspaper Le Monde described as a "thorn in Israel's flank." He once suggested that Israel does not need to give Palestinians anything to achieve peace -- just return what is rightfully theirs.
Rami Elhanan, a graphic designer, whose 14 year-old daughter, Smadar, was killed in 1997 in Jerusalem in a suicide attack. Instead of seeking revenge, he and his family turned their energy toward advocating peace. He and his wife have traveled the world lecturing about the need to end the suffering on both sides.
Jeff Halper, a professor of anthropology, who was the only Israeli to join 43 other international peace activists last August by sailing from Cyprus into Gaza to help break the inhumane siege of 1.5 million Palestinians. Risking his life, he was able to help deliver 200 hearing aids for Palestinian children.
Man of the Year should be reserved for those whose work and contributions help positively impact the quality of life for others and enhance the image of their country. Not Meir Dagan!
Dagan was born in 1945 in the former Soviet Union. The Dagans migrated to Israel in 1950, and at age 18, Meir Dagan enlisted in the IDF.
According to Channel 2 News political analyst, Emmanuel Rosen, Dagan has a long list of achievements that is unparalleled. He is right, and here is a brief summary:
Meir Dagan was behind the targeted assassinations of two Lebanese businessmen and several car bombings in Beirut and Damascus.
In the 1970s, while a unit commander in Gaza under the command of Ariel Sharon, he was given orders to hunt down Palestinian resistance fighters, capture them, and then kill them. He did. But worse than that, he personally executed prisoners of war, a war crime under the Geneva Convention. Not only that, he beheaded captives using a Japanese knife or a box cutter, the same kind of weapon used by 9/11 highjackers. The head of the Southern Command at that time, Ariel Sharon supervised the atrocities.
In the 1980s, during the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, Sharon, then in the position of Defense Minister, appointed Dagan Commander of Israeli forces in South Lebanon. His mission was to liquidate Lebanese resistance against the Israeli occupation army. Once again, the same savage and barbaric method was used by Dagan against captured Lebanese resistance fighters.
How on earth is this man not on the U.S. State Department's "no-fly list" or "terrorist watch list"? Why did no one know of these crimes before? What did Dagan do with severed heads of his victims?
Are there witness still alive who would verify these crimes? The answer is yes. According to stories in the Israeli press, the Israeli military censored the publication of an expose by two Israeli journalists on Dagan's shocking atrocities.
Major Gen. [Res.] Yossi Ben Hanan is on record as having witnessed Dagan killing his captives in a heinous way. Also, after their release from duty, several Israeli soldiers who committed serious crimes stated they were influenced by the horror of what they saw and what they were ordered to do by Dagan.
Thanks to Channel 2 News for blowing Meir Dagan's cover. Now Arab and Western human rights organizations can add the name of Meir Dagan to the list of Israeli military officers charged with war crimes in a European court on the basis of universal jurisdiction.
It is ironic that Israel has been engaged in hunting down Nazi war criminals all over the world for the last 60 years, but it now protects one of its own citizens who committed war crimes against Arabs and hails him as a hero.
Meir Dagan has eluded justice for nearly four decades after committing a crime against humanity. It is time for him to face the appropriate justice. His crimes will remain a stain of disgrace on the forehead of Israel. |
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Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:00 am Post subject: |
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The guy is an evil psychopath, but I"m not surprised at the choice. Remember that this is a country that elected someone with a long litany of gruesome attrocities against civilians to be Prime Minister, only 8 or so years ago. War criminals thrive in such a militarised society. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:12 am Post subject: |
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Big_Bird wrote: |
Remember that this is a country that elected someone with a long litany of gruesome attrocities against civilians to be Prime Minister, only 8 or so years ago. War criminals thrive in such a militarised society. |
Israel: 60 years of kicking ass and taking names. |
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Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:16 am Post subject: |
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Kuros wrote: |
Big_Bird wrote: |
Remember that this is a country that elected someone with a long litany of gruesome attrocities against civilians to be Prime Minister, only 8 or so years ago. War criminals thrive in such a militarised society. |
Israel: 60 years of kicking ass and taking names. |
If you think murdering helpless civillians (including whole families and children) in killing orgies (Sharon's forte) or beheading your live captive is just 'kicking ass' then I'm sorry Kuros. I don't know how to relate you. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: |
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Big_Bird wrote: |
Kuros wrote: |
Big_Bird wrote: |
Remember that this is a country that elected someone with a long litany of gruesome attrocities against civilians to be Prime Minister, only 8 or so years ago. War criminals thrive in such a militarised society. |
Israel: 60 years of kicking ass and taking names. |
If you think murdering children in killing orgies (Sharon's forte) or beheading your live captive is just 'kicking ass' then I'm sorry Kuros. I don't know how to relate you. |
It depends on how you identify a country/entity. All those incidents to you are essential to what Israel is. To me, those incidents are exceptions and conditioned upon the relevant circumstances.
Think about how you feel about Hezbollah. Yeah, we're not so different.  |
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Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:34 am Post subject: |
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Kuros wrote: |
Big_Bird wrote: |
Kuros wrote: |
Big_Bird wrote: |
Remember that this is a country that elected someone with a long litany of gruesome attrocities against civilians to be Prime Minister, only 8 or so years ago. War criminals thrive in such a militarised society. |
Israel: 60 years of kicking ass and taking names. |
If you think murdering children in killing orgies (Sharon's forte) or beheading your live captive is just 'kicking ass' then I'm sorry Kuros. I don't know how to relate you. |
It depends on how you identify a country/entity. All those incidents to you are essential to what Israel is. To me, those incidents are exceptions and conditioned upon the relevant circumstances.
Think about how you feel about Hezbollah. Yeah, we're not so different.  |
Except those incidents are not so exceptional, sadly.
And secondly, I doubt very much you understand how I feel about Hezbollah.
I"ll leave it here. I still have another exam to revise for. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:36 am Post subject: |
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Big_Bird wrote: |
I doubt very much you understand how I feel about Hezbollah. |
Likewise, you have no idea how I *really* feel about Israel. |
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sharkey

Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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Even though I have no problems criticizing US on its foreign realtions and treatment of others, I find it hard to do the same for the Israelis. Yes, they murder people, yes they mistreat people, etc etc and all that crap, however, Israel has to keep its image in tact. Its such a hard thing to explain and I am doing a horrendous job, but, its best described as this. If there was ever a nation that could justify its actions of agression it would be the Israelis. Even though I am completely against aggression and war. Israel deserves the land they have, they won 4 wars, 48, 56, 67, 73, Arabs need to accept that and move on. I hope they can find some peace soon! |
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Yu_Bum_suk

Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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Just remember, Americans, that much of this would not be possible without the 3+ billions of your tax dollars you just hand over as a free gift to Israel every year, in addition to free, taxpayer supported military aid. That's right, your economy's going down the toilet and yet every year you're just giving billions of your money over to this apartheid state to keep it functioning and thus keep millions of Arabs so upset at you that they'd love to do to Americans what Israelis have done to Arabs. |
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RJjr

Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Location: Turning on a Lamp
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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
Just remember, Americans, that much of this would not be possible without the 3+ billions of your tax dollars you just hand over as a free gift to Israel every year, in addition to free, taxpayer supported military aid. That's right, your economy's going down the toilet and yet every year you're just giving billions of your money over to this apartheid state to keep it functioning and thus keep millions of Arabs so upset at you that they'd love to do to Americans what Israelis have done to Arabs. |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-j4rmu_X88
The guy at the 3:15 mark blames me and my country for the attack and says he will "fight America every day." I wish he knew that I would rather my tax dollars go to help homeless Americans, the United Negro College Fund, or really anything productive. Obviously, even foreign whites take priority over many if not most Americans. |
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Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:22 am Post subject: |
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RJjr wrote: |
Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
Just remember, Americans, that much of this would not be possible without the 3+ billions of your tax dollars you just hand over as a free gift to Israel every year, in addition to free, taxpayer supported military aid. That's right, your economy's going down the toilet and yet every year you're just giving billions of your money over to this apartheid state to keep it functioning and thus keep millions of Arabs so upset at you that they'd love to do to Americans what Israelis have done to Arabs. |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-j4rmu_X88
The guy at the 3:15 mark blames me and my country for the attack and says he will "fight America every day." I wish he knew that I would rather my tax dollars go to help homeless Americans, the United Negro College Fund, or really anything productive. Obviously, even foreign whites take priority over many if not most Americans. |
That was awful.  |
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Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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sharkey wrote: |
Even though I have no problems criticizing US on its foreign realtions and treatment of others, I find it hard to do the same for the Israelis. Yes, they murder people, yes they mistreat people, etc etc and all that crap, however, Israel has to keep its image in tact. Its such a hard thing to explain and I am doing a horrendous job, but, its best described as this. If there was ever a nation that could justify its actions of agression it would be the Israelis. Even though I am completely against aggression and war. Israel deserves the land they have, they won 4 wars, 48, 56, 67, 73, Arabs need to accept that and move on. I hope they can find some peace soon! |
Dispossessing a people of their land is a massive crime against humanity and ethnic cleansing. Whether it's Serbians doing to Bosnians or Albanians, or Israelis doing to Palestinians it is simply wrong. You are going with the notion that might is right. If we go with that notion, we will have violence in perpetuity. As far as Hezbollah and Israel, they were both mentioned. They are two different organizations. Hezbollah is a sectarian organization that was borne out of the fruit of an Israeli invasion that was brutal and now is a problem somewhat for some in Lebanon.
The status quo between the Arabs and Israelis is not working. Violence is not the answer. Hezbollah and Israel are not one in the same.
We can laud the many of the newspapers in Israel condemned the choice of Meir Dagan. Of course, Israel is not solely responsible for what's happening in the area.
As far as that wars, it's arguable whether they were justified or not.
You can't list the 1956 war as a victory, because France and England were involved, but you can say that about 1948, 1967, and 1973. Focusing so much on the past won't solve the problems of the present. The Israelis and Arabs need to find a path to peace. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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I highly recommend this book, "The Iron Wall"
I am presently reading it. Let's just say it makes me even less sympathetic towards Israel, which has exacerbated the problems between it and its Arab neighbors as much, if not even more than they have.
The author is an Israeli historian presently at Oxford, and has lots of documentation for his book, so it is legit. |
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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bucheon bum wrote: |
The author is an Israeli historian... |
Wikipedia's entry identifies him differently...
Wikipedia wrote: |
Avi Shlaim (born October 31, 1945 in Baghdad, Iraq) is an Israeli-British dual citizen and historian and identifies ethnically as an Iraqi Jew. He is now a professor of International relations at Oxford and in 2006 was elected fellow of the British Academy. Shlaim is considered a key member of a group of Israeli scholars known as the New Historians who put forward revised interpretations of the history of Zionism and Israel. He is a regular contributor to the Guardian newspaper... |
Sounds like Israel's version of America's revisionist "Wisconsin School" and "the New Left."
And this part...
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Shlaim's approach to the study of history is informed by his belief that "The job of the historian is to judge." |
...seems to explain your taking "it makes me even less sympathetic towards Israel" from his book. In any case, I have taken an interest in the Middle East through the Ottomans, North Africa, and the Med, and will participate in a seminar on the Arab-Israeli Conflict next semester -- against my better judgement, but I need another seminar before taking my doctoral exams this year. I hope to become better prepared to exchange on this issue.
Interview |
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sharkey

Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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Adventurer wrote: |
sharkey wrote: |
Even though I have no problems criticizing US on its foreign realtions and treatment of others, I find it hard to do the same for the Israelis. Yes, they murder people, yes they mistreat people, etc etc and all that crap, however, Israel has to keep its image in tact. Its such a hard thing to explain and I am doing a horrendous job, but, its best described as this. If there was ever a nation that could justify its actions of agression it would be the Israelis. Even though I am completely against aggression and war. Israel deserves the land they have, they won 4 wars, 48, 56, 67, 73, Arabs need to accept that and move on. I hope they can find some peace soon! |
Dispossessing a people of their land is a massive crime against humanity and ethnic cleansing. Whether it's Serbians doing to Bosnians or Albanians, or Israelis doing to Palestinians it is simply wrong. You are going with the notion that might is right. If we go with that notion, we will have violence in perpetuity. As far as Hezbollah and Israel, they were both mentioned. They are two different organizations. Hezbollah is a sectarian organization that was borne out of the fruit of an Israeli invasion that was brutal and now is a problem somewhat for some in Lebanon.
The status quo between the Arabs and Israelis is not working. Violence is not the answer. Hezbollah and Israel are not one in the same.
We can laud the many of the newspapers in Israel condemned the choice of Meir Dagan. Of course, Israel is not solely responsible for what's happening in the area.
As far as that wars, it's arguable whether they were justified or not.
You can't list the 1956 war as a victory, because France and England were involved, but you can say that about 1948, 1967, and 1973. Focusing so much on the past won't solve the problems of the present. The Israelis and Arabs need to find a path to peace. |
the palestinians are a problem within themselves. They cant organize correctly, there is infighting and factions. No arab countries want the palestians.
the past is where all the problems are ! you cant erase iraeli victories against overwhelming odds. if i were the israelis i wouldnt give shit back to anyone. i know damn well the israelis are making life as miserable as possible for the palestians, but, agree to negotiations with israel, crack down on extermism on both sides and live simultaneously. I dont want the israelis doing that shit, but, wtf other ways to do they have to stop rockets and shit. its just a hard situation all together and the answer is above everyones head. the israeli blockade is tough, but, the palestians need to wake up and see they arent in charge, they have to negotiate from a weaker position. everythign is messed in the ME =) |
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