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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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I do not blame you or the prestigious Yahoo.com news outlet, H-diddy. Everyone likes to have an enemy or a threat to better identify themselves. And everyone likes to stay in business, too.
A sign at a convenience store in Maine? Sounds like a stretch.
In any case, we are not talking about racists' views; we are talking about African-Americans' views. They seem to have changed overnight. You may only accept that kicking and screaming. But, well, whatever. |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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huffdaddy wrote:
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| Heck, a white guy in a black neighborhood is probably safe than a black guy in a white neighborhood. |
Uh-huh. Well consider yourself lucky as I did under similar circumstances. But if you really believe a Black guy in a typical (re: not KKK country) White neighborhood would be more at risk, then you are really a victim after all--of the worst sort of wishful thinking.
As a sidebar, in 1978 I attended an Elvis Costello concert with a friend in Milwaukee in a run-down blue-collar neighborhood (this was just before his big hit, "Alison"). We happened to find ourselves at a gas station in the nearby Black quarter of the city and were immediately taunted by a group of wannabe thugs, one of whom followed me into the store to pay the cashier all the while glaring at me. Yeah, the welcome mat was really rolled out.
You can dismiss this as anecdotal evidence but in so doing you'd have to do the same with your own illustration.
CASE CLOSED |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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asylum seeker sought:
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| Obama's election should be the best thing to happen in American race relations in a long time. Some of those on the left really need to start looking at this more positively. Racism will always exist to some extent but having a continual victim mentality and ignoring positive changes does far more harm than good IMO. If Obama had had this kind of victim mentality then we would not be seeing a black president today. |
Very well put, indeed. Kudos to you. But, alas, don't expect the Left loonies to back away from their grievances, otherwise where would they be? Consigned to the dust bin of history no doubt.
Great username by the way. |
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bangbayed
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| How do you think progess happens if not for the grievances of the "left loonies"? The free market? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| bangbayed wrote: |
| How do you think progess happens if not for the grievances of the "left loonies"? |
Delusions of grandeur, self-martyrdom, and self-hero-worship at their finest... |
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bangbayed
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| bangbayed wrote: |
| How do you think progess happens if not for the grievances of the "left loonies"? |
Delusions of grandeur, self-martyrdom, and self-hero-worship at their finest... |
Is that your final answer? |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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No racism here to see. Pay no attention to the man behind the sheet.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081115/ap_on_re_us/obama_racial
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Cross burnings. Schoolchildren chanting "Assassinate Obama." Black figures hung from nooses. Racial epithets scrawled on homes and cars.
Incidents around the country referring to President-elect Barack Obama are dampening the postelection glow of racial progress and harmony, highlighting the stubborn racism that remains in America.
From California to Maine, police have documented a range of alleged crimes, from vandalism and vague threats to at least one physical attack. Insults and taunts have been delivered by adults, college students and second-graders.
There have been "hundreds" of incidents since the election, many more than usual, said Mark Potok, director of the Intelligence Project at the Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors hate crimes.
One was in Snellville, Ga., where Denene Millner said a boy on the school bus told her 9-year-old daughter the day after the election: "I hope Obama gets assassinated." That night, someone trashed her sister-in-law's front lawn, mangled the Obama lawn signs, and left two pizza boxes filled with human feces outside the front door, Millner said.
She described her emotions as a combination of anger and fear.
"I can't say that every white person in Snellville is evil and anti-Obama and willing to desecrate my property because one or two idiots did it," said Millner, who is black. "But it definitely makes you look a little different at the people who you live with, and makes you wonder what they're capable of and what they're really thinking."
Potok, who is white, said he believes there is "a large subset of white people in this country who feel that they are losing everything they know, that the country their forefathers built has somehow been stolen from them."
Grant Griffin, a 46-year-old white Georgia native, expressed similar sentiments: "I believe our nation is ruined and has been for several decades and the election of Obama is merely the culmination of the change.
"If you had real change it would involve all the members of (Obama's) church being deported," he said.
Change in whatever form does not come easy, and a black president is "the most profound change in the field of race this country has experienced since the Civil War," said William Ferris, senior associate director of the Center for the Study of the American South at the University of North Carolina. "It's shaking the foundations on which the country has existed for centuries."
"Someone once said racism is like cancer," Ferris said. "It's never totally wiped out, it's in remission."
If so, America's remission lasted until the morning of Nov. 5.
The day after the vote hailed as a sign of a nation changed, black high school student Barbara Tyler of Marietta, Ga., said she heard hateful Obama comments from white students, and that teachers cut off discussion about Obama's victory.
Tyler spoke at a press conference by the Georgia chapter of the NAACP calling for a town hall meeting to address complaints from across the state about hostility and resentment. Another student, from a Covington middle school, said he was suspended for wearing an Obama shirt to school Nov. 5 after the principal told students not to wear political paraphernalia.
The student's mother, Eshe Riviears, said the principal told her: "Whether you like it or not, we're in the South, and there are a lot of people who are not happy with this decision."
Other incidents include:
_Four North Carolina State University students admitted writing anti-Obama comments in a tunnel designated for free speech expression, including one that said: "Let's shoot that (N-word) in the head." Obama has received more threats than any other president-elect, authorities say.
_At Standish, Maine, a sign inside the Oak Hill General Store read: "Osama Obama Shotgun Pool." Customers could sign up to bet $1 on a date when Obama would be killed. "Stabbing, shooting, roadside bombs, they all count," the sign said. At the bottom of the marker board was written "Let's hope someone wins."
_Racist graffiti was found in places including New York's Long Island, where two dozen cars were spray-painted; Kilgore, Texas, where the local high school and skate park were defaced; and the Los Angeles area, where swastikas, racial slurs and "Go Back To Africa" were spray painted on sidewalks, houses and cars.
_Second- and third-grade students on a school bus in Rexburg, Idaho, chanted "assassinate Obama," a district official said.
_University of Alabama professor Marsha L. Houston said a poster of the Obama family was ripped off her office door. A replacement poster was defaced with a death threat and a racial slur. "It seems the election brought the racist rats out of the woodwork," Houston said.
_Black figures were hanged by nooses from trees on Mount Desert Island, Maine, the Bangor Daily News reported. The president of Baylor University in Waco, Texas said a rope found hanging from a campus tree was apparently an abandoned swing and not a noose.
_Crosses were burned in yards of Obama supporters in Hardwick, N.J., and Apolacan Township, Pa.
_A black teenager in New York City said he was attacked with a bat on election night by four white men who shouted 'Obama.'
_In the Pittsburgh suburb of Forest Hills, a black man said he found a note with a racial slur on his car windshield, saying "now that you voted for Obama, just watch out for your house."
Emotions are often raw after a hard-fought political campaign, but now those on the losing side have an easy target for their anger.
"The principle is very simple," said BJ Gallagher, a sociologist and co-author of the diversity book "A Peacock in the Land of Penguins." "If I can't hurt the person I'm angry at, then I'll vent my anger on a substitute, i.e., someone of the same race."
"We saw the same thing happen after the 9-11 attacks, as a wave of anti-Muslim violence swept the country. We saw it happen after the Rodney King verdict, when Los Angeles blacks erupted in rage at the injustice perpetrated by 'the white man.'"
"It's as stupid and ineffectual as kicking your dog when you've had a bad day at the office," Gallagher said. "But it happens a lot." |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
huffdaddy wrote:
| Quote: |
| Heck, a white guy in a black neighborhood is probably safe than a black guy in a white neighborhood. |
Uh-huh. Well consider yourself lucky as I did under similar circumstances. But if you really believe a Black guy in a typical (re: not KKK country) White neighborhood would be more at risk, then you are really a victim after all--of the worst sort of wishful thinking.
As a sidebar, in 1978 I attended an Elvis Costello concert with a friend in Milwaukee in a run-down blue-collar neighborhood (this was just before his big hit, "Alison"). We happened to find ourselves at a gas station in the nearby Black quarter of the city and were immediately taunted by a group of wannabe thugs, one of whom followed me into the store to pay the cashier all the while glaring at me. Yeah, the welcome mat was really rolled out.
You can dismiss this as anecdotal evidence but in so doing you'd have to do the same with your own illustration.
CASE CLOSED |
1978? That's an eon away! What relevance is that? You may as well be talking about the middle ages!  |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Keep digging, H-diddy. I am sure you will find what you are looking for. You always do, after all.
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| 1978? That's an eon away! What relevance is that? You may as well be talking about the middle ages! |
And what about the slavery and Jim Crow eras, then, hmm...? |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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bangbayed snapped at Gopher:
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| Is that your final answer? |
BB: you need your clockwork cleaned as it's getting orange with rust. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| bangbayed wrote: |
| How do you think progess happens if not for the grievances of the "left loonies"? The free market? |
The "free market" did not cause slavery, segregation and the war on drugs. Government treating blacks like cattle did. I don't see how market economies have become associated with this nonsense when it was government to blame. |
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bangbayed
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| bangbayed wrote: |
| How do you think progess happens if not for the grievances of the "left loonies"? The free market? |
The "free market" did not cause slavery, segregation and the war on drugs. Government treating blacks like cattle did. I don't see how market economies have become associated with this nonsense when it was government to blame. |
I wasn't blaming the free market at all. I was suggesting that the engine for social and progressive change - far more often than not - has been the progressive left, rather than the free market.
Is this a radical idea? |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:09 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Keep digging, H-diddy. I am sure you will find what you are looking for. You always do, after all. |
Let's see those same survey questions asked now that the feel good election results have passed. Do you think it'd be a wild guess to assume the "new era" isn't going to be quite embraced as you thought it would be? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:53 am Post subject: |
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I will place my bets with Alvin Poussaint's views, as cited above (which I doubt you read). Given what I know about the NAACP's arguments, especially its psychology experts' opinions, in Brown, I feel even more convinced.
Do not underestimate the combined long-term effects of phenomena such as integration, the Cosby Show, and an African-American in the White House, on the news every day, on the African-American community's perception of itself and especially on its confidence in and loyalty to the American government and its institutions. And do not underestimate the American Constitution's power to sooner or later reconcile differences and produce an equitable society in the United States.
You prefer to seek out and seize upon the negatives -- epseically persisting racism here and there. And you have no patience. I know your type. There are problems in this or that, they are not solved immediately, and therefore the entire thing is rotten to the core.
So cite the signs you find in Standish, Maine convenience stores all you like, H-diddy. You are looking the wrong way, however. And I imagine you will continue looking the wrong way for the rest of your life. You have been programmed that way by people who have been programmed that way by still others who have been programmed that way and so on. Leftism is like a religion in that way. |
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jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
American society on the whole, legally and otherwise, has long since abandoned Jim Crow, rejected all its legacies, and simply does not discriminate against African-Americans as a class. |
| Gopher wrote: |
| And do not underestimate the American Constitution's power to sooner or later reconcile differences and produce an equitable society in the United States. |
Hey Gopher, could you clarify what you are trying to say? Has our constitution already reconciled differences and produced an equitable society? Or is that something that is going to occur sooner or later? You say that American society simply does not discriminate against African-Americans as a class. Are you also saying that American individuals no longer discriminate against African-Americans? How common do you think is racism in the US? How common do you think it is for Blacks to be discriminated against in employment and housing etc, despite the laws against it. Do you think that racist individuals simply set aside their personal views about race when they decide who to hire or promote or rent to, because the law says they have to? |
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