Korean Job Discussion Forums

[withnail]

I know this topic has been talked to death but I am still amazed at what's on offer. I thought we were in the middle of a worldwide credit crunch in which the value of the won against the dollar is hurtling to new lows.

Yet rather than producing a slight compensatory gesture on the part of universities in Korea in terms of pay and conditions offered, there has been a quite illogical shift the other way for reasons I can't quite fathom.

Take the latest 2 on the board at Suwon and Duksung for example. Unigwons, salaries in the range of 1.9-2.1, vacation of just a month or two respectively, hours approaching hagwon levels and what do they want in return for this?

BA, TEFL cert, couple of years EFL experience AND MATESOL!!!

It's about time we all started emailing these places not with our resumes but rather with a few pointed questions about the prevailing economic climate. In a recession, why would you raise the goalposts for admission and reduce the benefits? Only in Korea....

[The_Source]

It's all about supply and demand. As long as there are people lined up to accept these jobs, universities will continue to lower their salaries and worsen their conditions.

Then, this leads us to the question of WHY there are so many people lined up to accept these sorry positions. One common reason seems to be an erroneous belief that Korean university jobs are somehow "prestigious." Another reason is the long vacations, although this vacation time gets absorbed by the increasing extra duties assigned by universities, along with the students who commandeer your vacation by whining & complaining about their grades.

[sumfunu]

Many universities are in the midst of their hiring cycle for the March/2009 semester and the shite ones(and many not so shite ones), although they are "requiring" an MA "in hand" at time of hire, will very likely be rushing around calling their third alternates with a Bachelor's in mid-late February, when the MA's have taken a better position. The March/09 semester should be particularly interesting in this regard, given the dismal exchange rate and the large number of "old hands" leaving, because of the chaos of the new regulations.
Koreans are infamous cheapskates and if you are in a vulnerable position and do not know your true worth, then they will try to browbeat you into accepting a low salary and "many works". In short, be assertive, but not demanding and if they persist with a lowball offer, sigh and look down at the table and say that you "need some time to consider this". I predict that you will, almost certainly, get an 11th hour call and they have amazingly found some extra funding and will agree to your salary "request."

[bassexpander]

Simple answer: Don't even apply for the jobs. Period. End of discussion.

I work at a university in Seoul (not a high-ranking one). I've also worked at a public high school (private, but basically the same). I know the differences between the two. Knowing what I know, I'd take an average high school job over one of these crap university jobs outside of Seoul any day of the week.

Why is a public school better?

1. Solid working hours (no massive splits).
2. NO GRADING OF HOMEWORK.
3. More of a "community" feeling, if you're at a good school and make friends.
4. Hidden vacation comes at times when flights are much cheaper. Unis may offer more vacation, but many of the really crappy ones are requiring you to work camps during those times.
5. Chances to teach the children of teachers privately (uni profs don't usually have kids of that age).
6. Most univs don't offer a year-end bonus or flight paid to Japan.
7. General management staff at most out-of-town univs. are absolute idiots. Yes, that's right. And they're probably in their jobs because of family connections, money, or failure to get accepted in jobs anywhere better. Few have jobs because they actually know what the hell they are doing.

I believe there are FAR too many universities in Korea. They've become money-making enterprises frought with nepotism and worthless academics. Most small-town unis should be shut down, IMHO.

Seriously, folks... most public school jobs are far better than these crap out-of-Seoul university offers. And believe it or not, you'll be working with more academically-oriented students at the public school level. Most of the students in small out-of-Seoul unis weren't able to get into a Seoul univ., and just don't care. Can you imagine teaching a class full of the public school students who were the worst? That's what many of these small unis in the boonies consist of.

Don't even bother. Stick with a public school. You'll make more money, work less, and if you do your research, find a school with good enough vacation. Let these univs. hire people dumb enough to take the job. 1.9 for over 22 hours... AND have to grade homework? Take it and shove it, man! The exchange rate is 1500 to 1 right now. It was 950 to 1 last summer. Who would consider this kind of job?

When it comes down to it, WHAT FUTURE DIFFERENCE IS IT GOING TO MAKE to 95% of teachers here if they work at a public school or a boondocks university? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. You may as well go with a public school where you'll make more money, have a set schedule, and not have to do grading or checking student work.

[the_beaver]

[bassexpander]

[danseonsaeng]

So, you'd recommend going with a private/public high school instead? Or are you suggesting it'd be better to flee Korea for some other East or Southeast Asian spot?

I'll have an MA TESOL in 2.5 - 3 years from a Korean university + 4 years teaching experience with SMOE (assuming things continue as they have). That being said - should I expect to find a decent university job? MA TESOL + 4 years experience seems pretty solid to me, but I'm not so familiar with the job market. What should I expect?

Let me know your thoughts. Thanks very much.

[chaz47]

[TECO]

[bassexpander]

The university-like conditions are ebbing away, though.

[Unposter]

Sadly, and this is only my opinion, but my feeling on the matter is that many universities don't pay much because they do not really care who teaches conversational English nor do they really respect our credentials. The only reason they ask for certain degrees and majors is because they think it looks better but they could care less if they actually get such people.

There is probably a handfull of universities that give two sh*ts about conversational English.

Anybody will do but certainly an anybody with a snazzy degree is better than one without. So, my cynical side says don't be surprised if a university asks for the moon and barely gives a six-pence in return.

As far as I can tell, English Conversation Instructors serve two purposes: pacify students and to make money for the university. Raising salaries in order to attract higly qualified individuals only cuts into their bottom line.

[nobbyken]

Unposter, word. They don't need English conversatation to pass, it would a different education climate in Korea if they did.

I think most people know that the 원 is weak against the $. So are many currencies against the dollar. Most Korean people who have to pay overseas family costs, vacation in the States, or simply lost money as the markets tumbled know too dearly the cost of using the dollar as a currency base.

Some other currencies still make Korea an attractive prospect.

[MA_TESOL]

I work in a University outside of Seoul. My contract is for 14 hours a week; this semester I am doing 10 hours and still getting full pay. I make 3,400,000 a month with a 200 increase each year. I have complete classroom autonomy. No meetings. The office staff are wonderful and do all the footwork for immigration. The holidays are long, and if I do the "Intercessions", it's for 3 weeks and pays 1.7 million a class. All this sounds spendid to me

[icnelly]

[weatherman]

If one looks at the pay packet only, then the best jobs are at a few Seoul based universities. If you look at other factors that are important to you, such as the type of classes you teach, the environment you live in, etc., then all the best jobs aren�t necessarily in Seoul. I know my school doesn�t care about the quality of the conversations classes, but I do, and I enjoy teaching speaking. I enjoy the planning and implementation of a well thought out lesson. It�s a buzz for me. I would hate to have to teach TOEIC, or a pure writing course. Content based courses are cool, but they aren�t ESL, and I want to teach ESL. I like it when I can have reading and writing excesses as a part of my lesson, but not for the lesson�s sole purpose. My university surely isn�t great, but I get a lot of freedom to do what I want, and setting up well planned speaking lessons is a challenge I like, and I am not encumbered by other curriculum considerations. As for pay, I have received an increase every year, and only few brand name universities would pay me more, but not much more. Sure it would be nice to work a few hours less a week, but I don�t necessarily see the high paid university slots at a few places in Seoul, the top of the teaching hill in Korea. Great positions, yes, but ESL teaching in Korea is about a lot more than just a few high paid slots in Seoul.