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What will happen on Monday?

The Cons are doing fine. Libs will abstain from the vote.

36%

[ 7 ]

Canadians will go to the polls AGAIN.

26%

[ 5 ]

Left-wing parties will form a coalition.

36%

[ 7 ]

Total Votes : 19

Author

Message

mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject:

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2008/12/01/michael-bliss-unstable-coalition-is-a-powderkeg-under-canada.aspx

Quote:

Sanity and balance may be returning to Ottawa by the time you read this. If not, let everyone reflect on the implications a Liberal-NDP coalition coming to power with the support of the Bloc Qu�b�cois.

The constitutional �experts� who point out that Governor-General Micha�lle Jean could legitimately ask St�phane Dion to try to form a government are correct but superficial. They don�t take into account the responsibility the Governor-General would have to consider the circumstances.

Ms. Jean and her advisors would have to note that a party with 143 seats in the House of Commons would be defeated by an alliance of the Liberals, NDP and a Quebec-based political party explicitly and historically dedicated to the destruction of Canada. The Conservatives cannot be defeated except by Bloc Qu�b�cois votes.

If this were to happen, and Mr. Harper were denied a request to test the sentiments of Canadians with a new election, and a Liberal-NDP coalition, commanding 117 seats in the House, took office, the day-to-day power of the separatist party in the Canadian Parliament would be hugely enhanced, whether or not it had made a back-room deal with the leaders of the coalition.

I do not believe that the Governor-General can possibly allow herself to be complicit in such events. If the Conservatives are brought down by a separatist party, Ms. Jean would have to accede to the Prime Minister�s request to test the will of Canadians. To refuse to do this would be an abuse of vice-regal power, an abuse that would raise fundamental questions about Ms. Jean�s loyalty to the Constitution and to Canada. I doubt there is a precedent for such a situation in the history of parliaments.

I hope that responsible Liberal and NDP MPs, as they regain their senses after an emotional few days and hear from their constituents, are reflecting on all this. But suppose it happens anyway. How long would a Liberal-NDP-Bloc coalition or partnership last?

My guess is that it would collapse within a week -- Parliament would be chaotic, backbenchers could not be controlled. The Governor-General would then have to return power to Mr. Harper, who would probably insist that there be an election in which a key issue would be Ms. Jean�s abuse of her office. She certainly could not grant a dissolution and election to some other prime minister, as Lord Byng did to the hapless Arthur Meighen in 1926.

If the coalition did manage to survive in Parliament (thanks to support from the Bloc) it could not possibly begin to govern the country without some kind of electoral mandate from the Canadian people. The idea that a Liberal-NDP coalition would be in a position to govern Canada for months or years is preposterous.

There would have to be an election within weeks or months. Coalitions face monumental problems fighting elections because of duplications, conflicts and animosities at the grassroots and organizational levels, and this one would almost certainly go down in flames.

The situation goes far beyond what some might see as a �normal� test of wills in a minority Parliament. It is a powder-keg that, once ignited, would have unpredictable consequences. Like millions of Canadians, I have been appalled these last few days at the blustering and scheming of a political class that seems to have utterly lost its senses, its moral compass and its sense of responsibility to the Canadian people. These politicians are behaving like spoiled, out-of-control children.
Canadians deserve better.

I did not vote for the Cons in the last election (I cast a protest vote to the Greens) and have not agreed with all that much that Harper has done as of late. But this is absolutely a horrific idea given the prevailing economic winds.

Even when my team has not been in power in Canada, I've been relatively happy with how the country has been governed. But this is a recipe for disaster.

catman

Joined: 18 Jul 2004

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject:

You may not like the idea of a coalition government but it is completely democratic.

sharkey

Joined: 12 Oct 2008

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:23 pm Post subject:

look at our little poll going on here 5 5 5 ahhhhhhhhhh intensityyyy

bangbayed

Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject:

3 elections in as many years? And the second one only because Harper thought he timed it right so he could get a majority? Something needs to be done and a coalition govt sounds like as good an idea any other.

sharkey

Joined: 12 Oct 2008

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:25 pm Post subject:

mises wrote:

http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=1018500

Quote:

OTTAWA -- A two-year economic stimulus package that focuses on infrastructure, housing construction and the ailing manufacturing sector, overseen by a Finance Minister from the Liberal ranks, would be the top priority of a proposed Liberal-NDP coalition government.

Uggghhhhhhhhhhhh. Yes. Build houses. Goddamn.

i think thats a great idea, especially low income housing.. canada is shameful the way it treats poor people

i think its a great idea

although i do support NDP i hope they are not in on the economic side of things, i like this idea and other ones they have, but, cutting corporate taxes, thats a big no no.

its getting interesting nevertheless !

mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:24 pm Post subject:

sharkey wrote:

mises wrote:

http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=1018500

Quote:

Uggghhhhhhhhhhhh. Yes. Build houses. Goddamn.

i think thats a great idea, especially low income housing.. canada is shameful the way it treats poor people

i think its a great idea

Canada is shameful compared to who?

Are you saying you want projects? Where do you think the immediately poor 250,000 immigrants live upon arrival? Do you really think we are short of low income housing? Maybe we are importing too many low income people? Or should the government build the low income houses for the low income immigrants and their CPP eligible grandparents?

Housing policy, poverty and unemployment cannot be disassociated from our bizarre and unnecessary obsession with mass immigration.

mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:40 pm Post subject:

bangbayed wrote:

3 elections in as many years? And the second one only because Harper thought he timed it right so he could get a majority? Something needs to be done and a coalition govt sounds like as good an idea any other.

So, 4 elections in 3 years is what you want. To punish Harper. Or do you really believe that a Liberal government that needs the full support of the Bloc will be stable till 2010?

Last edited by mises on Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject:

catman wrote:

You may not like the idea of a coalition government but it is completely democratic.

Well, yes and no. It is legal, which is what I think you meant to say.

Not a single one Canadian voted for a Bloc-Liberal government. Not one. Had the Liberals advertised that they would do such a thing Harper would have a majority now. The Bloc is despised in English Canada.

catman

Joined: 18 Jul 2004

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:35 pm Post subject:

mises wrote:

catman wrote:

You may not like the idea of a coalition government but it is completely democratic.

Actually the Bloc will not be part of the coaltion government.

mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:41 pm Post subject:

catman wrote:

mises wrote:

catman wrote:

You may not like the idea of a coalition government but it is completely democratic.

Actually the Bloc will not be part of the coaltion government.

Please:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/12/01/coalition-talks.html

Quote:

Liberals, NDP, Bloc sign deal on proposed coalition

NDP Leader Jack Layton, left, shakes hands with Liberal Leader St�phane Dion, centre, and Bloc Qu�b�cois Leader Gilles Duceppe on Monday after signing a coalition agreement on Parliament Hill.NDP Leader Jack Layton, left, shakes hands with Liberal Leader St�phane Dion, centre, and Bloc Qu�b�cois Leader Gilles Duceppe on Monday after signing a coalition agreement on Parliament Hill. (Adrian Wyld/Canadian Press)

The Liberals and New Democrats signed an agreement on Monday to form an unprecedented coalition government, with a written pledge of support from the Bloc Qu�b�cois, if they are successful in ousting the minority Conservative government in a coming confidence vote.

The accord between parties led by St�phane Dion, Jack Layton and Gilles Duceppe came just hours after Liberal caucus members agreed unanimously that Dion would stay on to lead the Liberal-NDP coalition, with support in the House of Commons from Bloc MPs.
Duceppe, Layton and Dion signed this document securing a coalition deal among their three parties. Duceppe, Layton and Dion signed this document securing a coalition deal among their three parties. (Adrian Wyld/Canadian Press)

The six-point accord includes a description of the role of the Liberal and NDP caucuses, which would meet separately and sit next to each other on the government benches in the House of Commons, Dion told a news conference alongside Layton and Duceppe.

Dion said he has advised Gov. Gen. Micha�lle Jean in a letter that he has the confidence of the Commons to form the government should Stephen Harper's Conservatives be defeated in a confidence vote.

The Liberal leader said the parties reached the accord after watching the "sad spectacle" of other countries' governments acting to counter the "unprecedented" global economic crisis while Harper's Conservatives "sat and did nothing."

"Given the critical situation facing our fellow citizens and the refusal and inability of the Harper government to deal with this critical situation, the opposition parties have decided that it was now time to take action," he said.

"We are ready to form a new government that will address the best interests of the people instead of plunging Canadians into another election."
Details of the deal

The proposed coalition government includes:

* 24 members of cabinet and Dion as prime minister
* 18 Liberal cabinet ministers (including a yet-to-be-named Liberal finance minister)
* 6 NDP cabinet ministers
* 6 NDP parliamentary secretaries
* The 2 caucuses would sit side by side in the House of Commons
* The agreement between the NDP and Liberals would expire on June 30, 2011, unless renewed. The Bloc is only committed to 18 months.

Dion, who previously announced he would step down as Liberal leader, also pledged he would hand over "a strong government for a stronger Canada" to his Liberal successor on May 2.

"I am honoured to do that," Dion said.

Layton said the accord's proposed multibillion-dollar stimulus package for the troubled economy, which includes support for the auto and forestry sectors, is "prompt, prudent, competent and, most important, effective."

"This Parliament has failed to act, and it falls on us to act," Layton said.

The NDP leader also called on the prime minister to "accept this gracefully" and not bring further instability by fighting the verdict of his colleagues in the House.

"Prime minister, your government has lost the confidence of the House and it is going to be defeated at the earliest opportunity," he said.

Following the opposition news conference, Harper dispatched Environment Minister Jim Prentice to address the "serious" situation.

Prentice called the opposition pact "irresponsible and undemocratic" and said the government will consider all options.

He wouldn't rule out the government's asking Jean to suspend Parliament until late in January, when the Tories have promised to introduce a new budget.

The proposed coalition cabinet will comprise 24 ministers and the prime minister. Six of these ministers will be appointed from within the NDP caucus. The position of finance minister would be held by a Liberal, while the NDP would be allotted six parliamentary secretaries.

The accord between the NDP and Liberals will expire on June 30, 2011, unless it is renewed. The Bloc is only committed to 18 months.

It includes a "policy accord" to address the "present economic crisis," which states that the accord "is built on a foundation of fiscal responsibility."

An economic stimulus package will be the new government's top priority, while other policies include a commitment to improve child benefits and childcare "as finances permit."

There is also a commitment to "pursue a North American cap-and-trade market" to limit carbon emissions.
Accord 'in the best interests of Quebec': Duceppe

The Bloc would not officially be a part of the coalition, but the new government's survival would depend on its support.

Duceppe said his party entered into an agreement that is "in the best interests of Quebec, of Quebecers during this time of economic difficulties."

"We chose for the time being to give priority to the economic situation and to the assistance we must provide to people," he said.

He added he did not agree to support the coalition beyond the 2011 date because the various parties could not agree on "concrete action to recognize the Quebec nation."

Parliament is due to vote on a Liberal no-confidence motion on Dec. 8. If Harper's government were to lose a confidence vote, Dion would request that Jean approve the proposed plan to form a coalition government.

But the Governor General, who is currently on a state visit in Europe, could also decide to send Canadians to the polls for a second time in less than two months. The prime minister could also still block coalition efforts by proroguing Parliament � that is, suspending it without dissolving it.

Without the Bloc, it isn't possible.

sharkey

Joined: 12 Oct 2008

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:36 am Post subject:

mises wrote:

sharkey wrote:

mises wrote:

http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=1018500

Quote:

Uggghhhhhhhhhhhh. Yes. Build houses. Goddamn.

i think thats a great idea, especially low income housing.. canada is shameful the way it treats poor people

i think its a great idea

first off, we dont allow unskilled immigrants into canada, we import very highly trained workers

http://www.streethealth.ca/Downloads/NickCEA-0507.pdf

bangbayed

Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:39 am Post subject:

mises wrote:

bangbayed wrote:

So, 4 elections in 3 years is what you want. To punish Harper. Or do you really believe that a Liberal government that needs the full support of the Bloc will be stable till 2010?

Four elections? Are you calling the parliamentary no-confidence vote an 'election'? That's kind of strange. Actually, if they didn't try to form an election, it seems a fourth election is just what would happen.

Look, Harper just isn't doing it for Canada.

mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:56 am Post subject:

sharkey wrote:

mises wrote:

sharkey wrote:

mises wrote:

http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=1018500

Quote:

Uggghhhhhhhhhhhh. Yes. Build houses. Goddamn.

i think thats a great idea, especially low income housing.. canada is shameful the way it treats poor people

i think its a great idea

first off, we dont allow unskilled immigrants into canada, we import very highly trained workers

http://www.streethealth.ca/Downloads/NickCEA-0507.pdf

And they enter unemployed, then stay underemployed for years. That is, they're poor. You don't know anything about the issue. Don't comment.

mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:57 am Post subject:

Quote:

The government will be extremely unstable. You are aware that the Bloc is a separatist party, right? Election will come in a few months.

Quote:

Look, Harper just isn't doing it for Cnada.

But you just whined about having too many elections. We will have another very soon now.

mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:29 am Post subject:

So Dion will be PM. The Liberal leader who lost worse than ever other modern Liberal leader. Dion. The man Canadians rejected as PM. wtf.

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