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What if Iran had Invaded Mexico?
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:46 pm Post subject:

Manner of Speaking wrote:

Can't you guys read a map...?

This marks you, more than anything else you have argued here, as N. Chomsky's tool on this issue. This "ring-of-bases" charge repeats the exact propaganda line the Chinese and North Vietnamese advanced during the Cold War in East Asia through the mid-1970s. It represents the losing-side-in-a-power-struggle's argument.

Also, does it occur to you that many of those local hosts have invited us there and are paying for it? And why do you think that is, Mr. Iran's Helper...?

Manner: you are not thinking independently on this issue, as you have told yourself and as you insist here. You are following the antiAmerican line. I regret this, because I consider our positions nearly the same on most other issues that have appeared here, especially, as you reminded me, above, on the Truman Administration's decision to employ nuclear weapons against Imperial Japan.

Last edited by Gopher on Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:36 am; edited 3 times in total

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:20 am Post subject:

Manner of Speaking wrote:

Holding over 100 nuclear weapons is a DE FACTO policy of threatening to wipe Iran -- or any other Middle Eastern country -- of the face of the earth. It is overkill by any measure. ?[/quote]

So what's China's DE FACTO policy? Or India's (don't say Pakistan since it doesn't need nukes to beat them)

Israel's nukes are a insurance policy against any overwhelming attack...from anyone.

Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:35 am; edited 1 time in total

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:31 am Post subject:

thiophene wrote:

Kuros wrote:

I really do not understand MoS' or any of the other worldviews which believe that Iran has a right to nuclear weapons. If Iran acquires nuclear weapons, how will it better the world, how will it even better Iran?

And how can the nulear powers not use their nuclear weapons? Are we supposed to just trust these people? the NPT is another way the Big Club has taken advantage of the little. Destroy your weapons, set a deadline, and that'll be fair.

What has fairness to do with it? Nuclear weapons are not toys in the sandbox that everyone must share. The more nations that have them, the more chance of some maniac getting in power or an accident happening. Should Robert Mugabe have them? Or how about Chavez? Or the warlords in Somalia? Or any of a half-dozen tinpot dictators around the world? After all it's not "fair" that Iran gets nuclear weapons and not them.

Most people learn by the time they are in kindy that the world is not fair and never has been.

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:18 am Post subject:

Manner of Speaking wrote:

Can't you guys read a map? Good god, the Iranians would be insane not to develop nuclear weapons:

[img]http://jack.link-u.com/wp-content/usbases.jpeg[/img]

Almost the same as saying "Al Qaeda would be insane not to develop nuclear weapons. " Similar rationale.

thiophene

Joined: 15 Sep 2007

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:31 pm Post subject:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

Manner of Speaking wrote:

Can't you guys read a map? Good god, the Iranians would be insane not to develop nuclear weapons:

[img]http://jack.link-u.com/wp-content/usbases.jpeg[/img]

Almost the same as saying "Al Qaeda would be insane not to develop nuclear weapons. " Similar rationale.

shame on you comparing Iran with Al Qaeda, they have no links, get out of your fantasy world...adolf. Rolling Eyes

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject:

thiophene wrote:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

Manner of Speaking wrote:

Can't you guys read a map? Good god, the Iranians would be insane not to develop nuclear weapons:

[img]http://jack.link-u.com/wp-content/usbases.jpeg[/img]

Almost the same as saying "Al Qaeda would be insane not to develop nuclear weapons. " Similar rationale.

shame on you comparing Iran with Al Qaeda, they have no links, get out of your fantasy world...adolf. Rolling Eyes

You are an apologist for terror and another who brings being a moonbat to an art form.

They in fact do have links.

9/11 Commission Finds Ties Between al-Qaeda and Iran

Quote:

Senior U.S. officials have told TIME that the 9/11 Commission's report will cite evidence suggesting that the 9/11 hijackers had previously passed through Iran

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,664967,00.html

Quote:

Is there a link between Mugniyah and al-Qaeda?
Mugniyah met with al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden in the mid-1990s, according to the court testimony of Ali Abdelsoud Mohammed, a naturalized U.S. citizen and former U.S. army sergeant who later became a senior aide to bin Laden. After his arrest in 1998 in connection with the embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, Mohammed testified that he arranged several meetings between bin Laden and Mugniyah in Sudan. Bin Laden reportedly admired Mugniyah's tactics, particularly his use of truck bombs, which precipitated the United States' withdrawal from Lebanon. According to Mohammed, bin Laden and Mugniyah agreed Hezbollah would provide training, military expertise, and explosives in exchange for money and man power. It is not known, however, whether this agreement was carried out. The relationship between Hezbollah and al-Qaeda is not entirely friendly, as explained in this Backgrounder.

http://www.cfr.org/publication/11317/#8

Quote:

By Noah Pollak

It is long past time that one important piece of fantastical rubbish be finally sent on its way: this is the idea that Islamists maintain some kind of fastidious ethnic and theological separatism when it comes to who they're willing to work with on killing people. The co-option of Hamas and Islamic Jihad (Sunni Arab) by Iran (Shia Persian) is one piece of reality that intrudes on this comforting notion; so is the Iran-Syria alliance, along with the reality of Iranian support for both Shia and Sunni insurgents in Iraq.

A final nail in the coffin comes today from Eli Lake, the New York Sun's talented national security reporter (and good friend). Eli's scoop is about the National Intelligence Estimate, an unclassified summary of which will be released today, but whose classified final working draft concludes that:

One of two known Al Qaeda leadership councils meets regularly in eastern Iran, where the American intelligence community believes dozens of senior Al Qaeda leaders have reconstituted a good part of the terror conglomerate's senior leadership structure.
Iranian hospitality toward Al Qaeda is not a new story -- but what is new is the apparent fact that one of two Qaeda leadership councils meets in Iran, and with the complicity of the regime. As Eli notes:

An intelligence official sympathetic to the view that it is a matter of Iranian policy to cooperate with Al Qaeda disputed the CIA and State Department view that the Quds Force is operating as a rogue force. "It is just impossible to believe that what the Quds Force does with Al Qaeda does not represent a decision of the government," the official, who asked not to be identified, said. "It's a bit like saying the directorate of operations for the CIA is not really carrying out U.S. policy."
Stories like these reinforce another very basic idea: terrorism has a return address.

http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/001492.html

Quote:

On al-Qaeda, the picture is more murky. Iran and Osama bin Laden's movement are hardly natural allies � Tehran almost went to war with al-Qaeda's Taliban hosts in Afghanistan in 1998, following Taliban massacres of Afghan Shiites. The extremist theology that inspires both the Taliban and al-Qaeda sees Shiites as infidels, although bin Laden is on record advocating unity for purposes of anti-American jihad. The reformist elected leadership in Tehran has sought to repair its relationships with the West and rehabilitate Iran diplomatically, but the hard-liners may have hedged their bets. It remains unlikely that the government of President Mohammed Khatami has made common cause with al-Qaeda operatives, although it has long been alleged that hard-liners in the Revolutionary Guard have unofficially provided some with shelter in Iran. Al-Qaeda may also have set up shop in the predominantly Sunni border region of eastern Iran, where central government authority is more limited and the authorities have lost thousands of men in battles with smugglers.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,455276,00.html

and they have somewhat similar goals in the mideast.This is what Iran's government seeks as ( someone else stated) with Tehran's longstanding ambitions in redefined in 1979: a Shi'ite sphere-of-influence backed by nuclear arms, (low level and proxy war) premised on rewriting the Middle Eastern map so that Israel disappears.

Friends for yours Thiopene?

Quote:

Mandaean is small community with no voice. They cannot seek truth and
justice. Mandaean is more vulnerable than even Christian and Jews, becausethe region IS NOT RECOGNIZED by the Iranian Constitution. The Sabian Mandaean Association of Australia (SMAA), based in Sydney wrote that thethreat of sexual assault is particularly serious, as Islamic Judges in Iran have set the precedent that the rape of Mandaean Women can be regarded as anact of "Purification", and as such, violators receive impurity. In Iran this defense has been used to acquit men of rapes on Mandaean girl as young as 8 years old. Destroying cemetery of Mandaean: There is old Mandaean Cemetery,located near main Muslim Commentary, (Beheshte Zahra). Extremist Muslim, as you can see by these pictures, constantly have destroyed gravestones.Mandaean are tired of repairing since the next day it will be destroyed again. This hate Ideology, is so powerful that drives normal Muslim to forget his national unity and to turn into another person and be ready todestroy gravestone of his countrymen. He thinks that it is an Islamic Duty to destroy Mandaean commentary which is near Muslim's commentary, to keepthe impurity away from it.

http://www.jamali.info/minorities/HUMAN_RIGHTS_AND_MANDAEAN_IN_IRAN.htm

Here is the truth Bathists, Khomeni followers and Al Qaedists are all fascist bigots who can't be trusted to govern or protect their minorities.

Quote:

Argentina denies Iran trade halt
Argentina has denied it is suspending commercial ties with Iran worth $1bn (�670m) a year.

The Argentine Jewish news agency and several Argentine newspapers earlier reported the suspension.

They said it was over differences in an investigation into a bomb attack on a Jewish cultural centre in Buenos Aires in 1994 that killed 85 people.

But the Argentine justice ministry later said that no such statement had been made.

The confusion came as members of the American Jewish Committee were preparing to meet President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner.

At the top of their agenda is the investigation into the bomb attack on the Jewish-Argentine Mutual Association (AMIA) centre - in which 300 people were injured in addition to the dozens killed.

No one has ever been convicted in connection with the killings.

But Argentine authorities believe the attack was carried out by Lebanese Islamic movement Hezbollah, with the backing of the then Iranian government.

Argentina has asked for the extradition of five Iranian politicians and diplomats in office at the time.

Both Iran and Hezbollah have denied any part in the attack.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/americas/7761360.stm

Published: 2008/12/02 20:44:50 GMT

� BBC MMVIII

Quote:

July 13, 1991

Japanese Translator of Rushdie Book Found Slain
By STEVEN R. WEISMAN
OKYO, July 12 -- The Japanese translator of "The Satanic Verses," by Salman Rushdie, was found slain today at a university northeast of Tokyo.

The translator, Hitoshi Igarashi, 44 years old, was an assistant professor of comparative culture who reportedly studied in Iran in the 1970's. The police said he was stabbed several times on Thursday night and left in the hallway outside his office at Tsukuba University.

It is the second time this month that someone involved with the production of the novel by Mr. Rushdie, the Indian-born author condemned to death by the Iranian authorities two years ago, has been assaulted. On July 3, Ettore Capriolo, 61, the Italian translator of "The Satanic Verses," was stabbed in his apartment in Milan...

http://www.nytimes.com/books/99/04/18/specials/rushdie-translator.html

Shame on you Thiophene for apologizing for terror.

catman

Joined: 18 Jul 2004

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject:

It says "they passed though Iran". The most tenuous links indeed.

thiophene

Joined: 15 Sep 2007

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:04 pm Post subject:

catman wrote:

It says "they passed though Iran". The most tenuous links indeed.

didn't you know the air throughout iran is known to include a potent mood altering treatment? The scientists call it megutztagil-d-enosent. It's documented in JAMA and everything! I've read that today they're workign on isolating the compound found in Iranian waters that makes them such good dancers.

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:17 am Post subject:

catman wrote:

It says "they passed though Iran". The most tenuous links indeed.

Iran has had other links w/ Al Qaeda .

Quote:

http://www.cfr.org/publication/11317/#8

Hizzbollah and Al Qaeda.

Intercepts Show Senior Al Qaeda in Iran Played Role in Saudi Bombings
Monday , May 26, 2003

By Rita Cosby

Quote:

The United States has intercepts that show senior Al Qaeda operatives in Iran (search) probably played a big role in the recent bombings in Saudi Arabia (search), a senior U.S. official confirmed to Fox News.

The official said the U.S. had intercepts for months prior to the bombings, which showed that senior Al Qaeda operatives in Iran were communicating with Al Qaeda (search) operatives in Saudi Arabia about an upcoming attack, with cryptic language suggesting the attack was going to happen in Saudi Arabia.

The operatives had been in Iran for at least months, and came there after they fled Afghanistan during the U.S. military's attack aimed at toppling the Taliban government.

The U.S. official also said there is intelligence after the Riyadh attacks that strongly suggests these operatives were pleased with their mission and involved in the attacks. The official stresses the intercepts were cryptic, with no specificity as to exact target, date or type of attack.

The Washington Post reported in its Sunday edition that the Bush administration has cut off contact with Iran -- and Pentagon officials are pushing for action they believe may destabilize the Islamic republic's government.

The newspaper, citing administration officials, said the White House "appears ready to embrace an aggressive policy of trying to destabilize the Iranian government."

Asked about the report, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said: "No, our policy continues to be the same." The United States insists that Iran stop supporting terrorists and end illicit weapons programs, he said. "Iran knows what it needs to do," he said.

In Tehran, Iran's foreign minister insisted his country does not and would not shelter Al Qaeda terrorists, and even has jailed some members of Usama bin Laden's network and plans to prosecute them.

"Iran has been the pioneer in fighting Al Qaeda terrorists, who have been posing threats to our national interests," Foreign Minister Kamal Kharrazi told the government's Tehran Television. "Iran was Al Qaeda's enemy before the U.S."

Worry about possible activities of senior Al Qaeda operatives thought to be in Iran was a factor in raising the domestic terror alert level in the United States last week, officials have said. Those operatives are suspected of being connected to the recent bombings in Saudi Arabia and Morocco.

"There's no question but that there have been and are today senior Al Qaeda leaders in Iran, and they are busy," Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said last week.

Nonetheless, U.S. officials are finding ways of communicating with Iranian officials "on subjects that are important to us," the State Department said last week.

One issue is Iran's suspected development of nuclear weapons. Washington rejects Iran's contention that its nuclear activities are for peaceful purposes.

The United States has labeled Iran as an exporter of terrorism since Washington began drawing up such a list in 1979 -- the year the Islamic republic was founded and then sponsored the seizure of the U.S. Embassy. Fifty-two Americans were held hostage for 444 days, and U.S.-Iran relations have remained severed.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,87778,00.html

Keep apologizing.

Quote:

washingtonpost.com
New Links Between Iran, Al Qaeda Cited

By Dan Eggen and Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, July 22, 2004; Page A06

Even before its official release today, the final report by the commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks reignited the political debate over Iraq and whether al Qaeda had a significant relationship with Saddam Hussein, as President Bush and other administration officials have alleged over the past two years.

The report, to be released at a Washington news conference this morning, echoes earlier findings by the Sept. 11 commission's staff that Iraq and al Qaeda had no "collaborative relationship" and dismisses as unfounded reports of a meeting between an Iraqi intelligence officer and Sept. 11 ringleader Mohamed Atta, said officials familiar with the document.

On Iran, by contrast, the report concludes that al Qaeda's relationship with Tehran and its client, the Hezbollah militant group, was long-standing and included cooperation on operations, the officials said. It also details previously unknown links between the two, including the revelation that as many as 10 of the Sept. 11 hijackers may have passed through Iran in late 2000 and early 2001 because Iranian border guards were instructed to let al Qaeda associates travel freely, sources familiar with the report have said.
Commission and government officials emphasize that they have found no indication that Tehran knowingly helped in the plot. But the commission report will cite evidence that Iran allowed al Qaeda members into the country even after the attacks.

The Sept. 11 panel has also raised the possibility that al Qaeda may have had a "yet unproven" role in the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing, which killed 19 U.S. servicemen and has been blamed on a Saudi Hezbollah group. Iran is a primary sponsor of Hezbollah, or Party of God, which the United States considers a terrorist group.

Many of the commission's findings about Iran were discovered only in recent weeks from, among other sources, electronic intercepts and interrogations of al Qaeda suspects in U.S. custody, sources familiar with the commission's findings said. Even before then, Chairman Thomas H. Kean (R), a former New Jersey governor, said, "There were a lot more active contacts, frankly, with Iran and with Pakistan than there were with Iraq."

Al Qaeda's ties to Iraq are sketchier. At the leadership level, Osama bin Laden and his associates for years saw Hussein as one of the secular Muslim leaders who had to be replaced. On the other side, as the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence recently reported, Hussein dealt harshly with Islamic extremists, and the CIA had intelligence reports that "the regime sought to prevent Iraqi youth from joining al Qaeda."

The Sept. 11 commission was the first to disclose that bin Laden at one time sponsored Ansar al-Islam, an anti-Hussein, Sunni Kurdish group in northern Iraq, but the al Qaeda leader dropped that aid at the request of the Sudanese. At that time, the Sudanese were providing bin Laden with haven and the Khartoum government wanted good relations with Iraq.

Although an Iraqi intelligence official may have met with bin Laden in Sudan in 1994, after two failed attempts, the CIA told the panel, nothing apparently developed from the meeting. The Senate report also cautioned that one source for the 1994 meeting was an Italian newspaper article published four years later and that other information came from "raw reports from foreign sources."

Two senior bin Laden lieutenants now in CIA custody, Abu Zubaida and Khalid Sheik Mohammed, both insisted that al Qaeda cooperation with Iraq would have been difficult. Abu Zubaida, according to the Senate report, told CIA interrogators that joint activities were "extremely unlikely," although he admitted it was possible there were communications he did not know about.

The Sept. 11 commission raised questions about whether al Qaeda was behind the 1993 World Trade Center attack and challenged Vice President Cheney's repeated assertion that Iraq may have been connected through one of the plotters.

The CIA considers Ramzi Yousef, ringleader of the 1993 bombing, to have been an independent operator, although he trained in Afghanistan and subsequently trained al Qaeda recruits. His entry into the United States on a phony Iraqi passport before carrying out the bombing is no indication Iraq was involved in the plot because stolen Iraqi passports "were common at this time," a CIA report said.

The vice president has repeatedly pointed to Abdul Rahman Yasin, a fugitive from the 1993 Trade Center prosecution, because he fled to Iraq with Iraqi assistance. But CIA officials told the Senate panel that Yasin, an Iraqi, was held "in custody since that time" in Baghdad by Iraqis who explained they feared the United States would misrepresent his role. Yasin, however, disappeared after the U.S. invasion.

The Sept. 11 commission also adopted the position of the FBI and the CIA that there is no evidence to support allegations, again repeated by Cheney, that Atta met Ahmed Khalil Ibrahim Samir al-Ani, the Iraqi Intelligence Service chief, in Prague, in the spring of 2001. A surveillance camera and cell phone records place him in Florida and Virginia during that time. Photographs of another alleged meeting between Atta and al-Ani in October 1999 were also analyzed by CIA and found inconclusive. Intelligence at that time placed Atta in Egypt, visiting his family.

� 2004 The Washington Post Company

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A4191-2004Jul21?language=printer

Privateer

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:46 am Post subject:

thiophene wrote:

perspective is very important

Perspective is exactly what this analogy provides for the US and British invasion and occupation of Iraq.

Apologies if that's what you meant: the comment is a bit cryptic. I took it as a criticism of the analogy.

thiophene

Joined: 15 Sep 2007

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:14 am Post subject:

Privateer wrote:

thiophene wrote:

perspective is very important

oh I was liking the analogy. No apologies necessary, 6 pages in I can't remember what I've quoted or what I've said.

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:00 pm Post subject:

What if India had invaded Venezuela? Al Qaeda would be crazy not to develop nuclear weapons.

Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:18 pm Post subject:

I think we ought to equip the Mexicans with nukes and settle the matter.

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

What if India had invaded Venezuela?

Al Qaeda would be crazy not to develop nuclear weapons.

lol.

Yeah, if you weren't all WARMONGERS you'd see its understandable that Hezzbollah would want nuclear weapons.

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