|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
|
 Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:23 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Most hagwons IGNORE the law and charge whatever parents will pay-300,000 per student, per month, and up, in Ilsan. Kindy can go as high as 2 million per month. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
BS.Dos.
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Most hagwons IGNORE the law and contracts. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Xuanzang
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Sadang
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Basic listening, grammar, writing and speaking cost 200,000w per month.
TOEFL or TEPS was 350,000w plus the cost of books, etc. Quite a pretty penny for parents to be doleing out. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sir John Hawkins
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
Location: Ulsan, SK
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:54 am Post subject: What if my Hogwan goes under? |
|
|
| What are my options if my Hagwan goes under? I dont want to sign another year contract. Would any schools negotiate term lengths? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
losing_touch
Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Location: Ulsan - I think!
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:56 am Post subject: Re: What if my Hogwan goes under? |
|
|
| Sir John Hawkins wrote: |
| What are my options if my Hagwan goes under? I dont want to sign another year contract. Would any schools negotiate term lengths? |
Where the heck are you in Ulsan? I live here. Many of your questions can be sorted out with a quick conversation over a couple of beers. I am probably headed out to the Ilsan Beach area of Dong-gu tomorrow night if you are up for a few cold ones. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
There is a maximum monthly price each hogwan can charge. Apparently there are different rates for different cities and provinces.
Here is an example:
Calculate the number of class hours of instruction per week the student is enrolled for. Multiply by 20,000 won. This is the MAXIMUM legal monthly fee that may be charged. There are little adjustments you need to make to do this computation. "Class hours are defined as 40 minutes, so if you have 40 minute classes, that's one hour. If you have 60 minute classes, that counts as 1.5 hours.
Now you can determine if your school is within or over the maximum.
There is NO adjustment for class size. Schools that offer smaller classes are NOT allowed to charge more.
There is NO adjustment for Korean teachers who speak no English versus native speakers.
So, schools that offer small classes with native speakers and no Korean teachers, and charge legal prices must operate at break even or even at a loss. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tfunk wrote: |
Wow, at 150,000 a month my director is milking it in. I wonder what the overhead is for the building?
If you take 150,000 as the base rate per student and 2,200,000 as the base salary for foreign teacher....
15 students at 150,000 = 2.2 million Won.
Of course, Korean co-teachers, our apartment costs and flight, school bus, electricity, secretary, directors profit etc. have to be figured into it.
I wonder what the lower limit of students to foreign teacher is before a hagwon will be closed? I reckon 40 per month at 150,000 = 6,000,000. |
Direct Cost of a teacher:
2.4 million base
0.2 million per month for airfare
0.2 million per month for year end bonus
0.4 million per month for housing
0.15 million per month for school's share of pension, health, other taxes and various Immi fees, legal fees, etc.
0.1 million per month for recruitment fees
0.1 million per month for free meals
3.55 million per month total Direct Cost per teacher
Indirect Costs per teacher:
Divide the school costs for rent, utilities, vans for kids, insurance for fire, liability etc, cleaning workers, office staff, copiers, paper, supplies, repairs, desks, chairs, equipment, fixtures etc. by the number of teachers.
For nearly every school, the Total cost per teacher (Direct and Indirect) will exceed 7 or 8 million per month.
Divide 7 million by the price per student to determine the minimum number of students you must teach before your school can break even. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rooster_2006
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
The costs of attending hagwons vary WILDLY.
I checked out prices for Japanese hagwons, and found that 시사 일본어 학원 charges between 400,000 and 500,000 won per month. That's expensive! On the other hand, the quality is apparently superb, and one of my Korean friends passed the highest level of JLPT (Level 1, university entrance level) with only three months at 시사.
On the other hand, the nearby Waseda hagwon also teaches Japanese -- for 85,000 a month. So yes, one hagwon is literally only 1/5 the cost of the other!
Prices vary quite a bit.
In terms of English hagwons, I'd expect that higher quality programs like Sogang SLP charge more than lower quality programs like GnB.
By the way, it's appalling how many of people on this board write hagwon as "hogwan." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Draz
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Location: Land of Morning Clam
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ontheway wrote: |
There is a maximum monthly price each hogwan can charge. Apparently there are different rates for different cities and provinces.
Here is an example:
Calculate the number of class hours of instruction per week the student is enrolled for. Multiply by 20,000 won. This is the MAXIMUM legal monthly fee that may be charged. There are little adjustments you need to make to do this computation. "Class hours are defined as 40 minutes, so if you have 40 minute classes, that's one hour. If you have 60 minute classes, that counts as 1.5 hours. |
So if they are enrolled in 10 class hours per week, they can only be charged 200k won? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yingwenlaoshi
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: ... location, location!
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ontheway wrote: |
| tfunk wrote: |
Wow, at 150,000 a month my director is milking it in. I wonder what the overhead is for the building?
If you take 150,000 as the base rate per student and 2,200,000 as the base salary for foreign teacher....
15 students at 150,000 = 2.2 million Won.
Of course, Korean co-teachers, our apartment costs and flight, school bus, electricity, secretary, directors profit etc. have to be figured into it.
I wonder what the lower limit of students to foreign teacher is before a hagwon will be closed? I reckon 40 per month at 150,000 = 6,000,000. |
Direct Cost of a teacher:
2.4 million base
0.2 million per month for airfare
0.2 million per month for year end bonus
0.4 million per month for housing
0.15 million per month for school's share of pension, health, other taxes and various Immi fees, legal fees, etc.
0.1 million per month for recruitment fees
0.1 million per month for free meals
3.55 million per month total Direct Cost per teacher
Indirect Costs per teacher:
Divide the school costs for rent, utilities, vans for kids, insurance for fire, liability etc, cleaning workers, office staff, copiers, paper, supplies, repairs, desks, chairs, equipment, fixtures etc. by the number of teachers.
For nearly every school, the Total cost per teacher (Direct and Indirect) will exceed 7 or 8 million per month.
Divide 7 million by the price per student to determine the minimum number of students you must teach before your school can break even. |
While you're somewhat on the right track, you're off by a bunch of million for what it costs for each teacher.
Back to the drawing board. Divide the costs of running the school by however many teachers there are, etc. and you're getting closer. That being said, since I've been here for a while, WHO CARES? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Draz wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
There is a maximum monthly price each hogwan can charge. Apparently there are different rates for different cities and provinces.
Here is an example:
Calculate the number of class hours of instruction per week the student is enrolled for. Multiply by 20,000 won. This is the MAXIMUM legal monthly fee that may be charged. There are little adjustments you need to make to do this computation. "Class hours are defined as 40 minutes, so if you have 40 minute classes, that's one hour. If you have 60 minute classes, that counts as 1.5 hours. |
So if they are enrolled in 10 class hours per week, they can only be charged 200k won? |
Yes. 10 class hours is actually defined as 400 minutes of instruction per week and the maximum legal price would be 200,000 won per month.
There are many hogwans that exceed the maximum legal price. If anyone reports them, the penalty is a temporary or permanent closure. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
brandonna
Joined: 30 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tfunk wrote: |
Wow, at 150,000 a month my director is milking it in. I wonder what the overhead is for the building?
If you take 150,000 as the base rate per student and 2,200,000 as the base salary for foreign teacher....
15 students at 150,000 = 2.2 million Won.
Of course, Korean co-teachers, our apartment costs and flight, school bus, electricity, secretary, directors profit etc. have to be figured into it.
I wonder what the lower limit of students to foreign teacher is before a hagwon will be closed? I reckon 40 per month at 150,000 = 6,000,000. |
If you have the 400,000,000 to 1,000,000,000 KRW it takes to start up an Academy, business smarts, abide by Korean regulations, keep parents happy, deal with the bus driver unions, fight off the million and half other hagwons nearby, find a strong location & hire teachers who are thinking about how they can improve their classes vs. thinking how much their bosses rake it in (just kidding), you too can "milk it."  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John_ESL_White
Joined: 12 Nov 2008
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| rooster_2006 wrote: |
By the way, it's appalling how many of people on this board write hagwon as "hogwan." |
lol. this made me spit out my frosty beverage...lol
It's appaling how my friend spells his Korean name Min Joo instead of Min Ju.... lol
joo ju same sound in Engrish-e
hag hog same sound in Engrish-e
------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway, you don't need a million bucks to start a hagwon. You need an apartment and a wife who is willing to help you recruit students.
1 student= 12 hours/ month for 200,000 (very very reasonable for the parents)
Four classes MWF
Two classes T TH
Five students in each class = 30 kids
MWF 1 hour classes
T TH 1.5 hour classes
6 million won per month for 18 hours teaching per week
One Saturday/ month splurge on a guest FT. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
brandonna
Joined: 30 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| John_ESL_White wrote: |
| rooster_2006 wrote: |
By the way, it's appalling how many of people on this board write hagwon as "hogwan." |
lol. this made me spit out my frosty beverage...lol
It's appaling how my friend spells his Korean name Min Joo instead of Min Ju.... lol
joo ju same sound in Engrish-e
hag hog same sound in Engrish-e
------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway, you don't need a million bucks to start a hagwon. You need an apartment and a wife who is willing to help you recruit students.
|
Agree 100% on the spelling comment...
And you're right you don't need a mill to start one for the most part -- just was giving the upper end b/c if you were starting one in Kangnam, had bus expenses and tried to start a larger one with more instructors, it could be close to the mill, if not more. Some people are a little more ambitious.
By the way, I know the starting expenses because I help manage 15 of them...I see the numbers regularly. I've looked into the costs of opening up branches from Seoul to Busan. Anyhoo, like you say, you can start one as small as you want. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John_ESL_White
Joined: 12 Nov 2008
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| brandonna wrote: |
| John_ESL_White wrote: |
| rooster_2006 wrote: |
By the way, it's appalling how many of people on this board write hagwon as "hogwan." |
lol. this made me spit out my frosty beverage...lol
It's appaling how my friend spells his Korean name Min Joo instead of Min Ju.... lol
joo ju same sound in Engrish-e
hag hog same sound in Engrish-e
------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway, you don't need a million bucks to start a hagwon. You need an apartment and a wife who is willing to help you recruit students.
|
Agree 100% on the spelling comment...
And you're right you don't need a mill to start one for the most part -- just was giving the upper end b/c if you were starting one in Kangnam, had bus expenses and tried to start a larger one with more instructors, it could be close to the mill, if not more. Some people are a little more ambitious.
By the way, I know the starting expenses because I help manage 15 of them...I see the numbers regularly. I've looked into the costs of opening up branches from Seoul to Busan. Anyhoo, like you say, you can start one as small as you want. |
I have a Korean friend who wants to partner with me. She had a hagwon in Cheolla provence that tanked. She's since moved to Gyeongi-do and is looking to start something here.
She acknoweldges that her first venture was a tank because she spent too much on computers, rent-deposit, interior, etc.
Anyway, she is RICH, but she wants me to pay HALF.
Being that you see the books of hagwons a lot, what are survival chances? We would focus on adults and upper level middle, HS, and uni students.
Let me know your thoughts.
Thanks |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
